Beatle backs call to stop turtle farming in Cayman
Posted on Thu, 10/18/2012 - 14:12 in Science and Nature
(CNS): One of the world’s most famous musicians, Paul McCartney, has offered his public support to the international campaign being spearheaded by the World Society for the Protection of Animals (WSPA) to stop turtle farming in the Cayman Islands. The former Beatle member announced on his website and ‘tweeted’ his backing for the campaign as he asked his fans to also support the goal to stop the farming and move towards conservation. Meanwhile, the Sea Turtle Conservancy has also joined the WSPA in asking the Cayman Turtle Farm to end the farming and is encouraging members of the public to take action.
Tweeting about the campaign on Wednesday, McCartney said there was no humane way to farm sea turtles. “Support @WSPA campaign to #stopseaturtlefarming,” McCartney posted on his Twitter account.
The WPSA’s campaign is attracting worldwide attention and at 2pm on Thursday 46,881 people had signed a petition on the website, which was posted only at the weekend.
A spokesperson for Sea Turtle Conservancy, which is based in the US, said Thursday that it had objected repeatedly to the Cayman Turtle Farm’s release of captive-raised turtles into the wild because of the potential impact on wild populations in the broader Caribbean.
“Well-documented diseases found primarily in captive turtles can be spread to wild populations,” the world's oldest marine turtle research and conservation organization said. “The turtles that are breeding at the Cayman Turtle Farm originate from many different oceans and nesting colonies, which means they have very different genetics. If their offspring are allowed to mix with and mate in the wild, it could have far reaching impacts on sea turtle navigation abilities and genetics.”
The group also said the release programme gives a false impression that conservation can be accomplished simply by breeding turtles in tanks and the releasing them.
“The Cayman Turtle Farm tries to promote its operation as something beneficial to wild turtle populations,” said David Godfrey, Sea Turtle Conservancy Executive Director. “Despite the lack of evidence that the turtle release program actually benefits the wild population, countless individuals around the world are led to believe that the program works and that it is a successful option for saving and restoring wild sea turtle numbers.”
Godfrey also pointed to the recent death of about 300 green turtles at the Farm during the repair of a leaking seawater pipe and said the turtles had been left to die in the heat.
“In essence, once the tank was drained, the turtles were left piled on top of each other to cook to death under the Cayman sunshine,” said Godfrey. “It’s time to turn things around at the Cayman Turtle Farm, and there really is an opportunity to do something positive for sea turtles at this historical site.”
The group said it was joining the World Society for the Protection of Animals in publicly asking the Cayman Turtle Farm to permanently end sea turtle farming and encouraging members of the public to take action at www.stopseaturtlefarm.org
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The Turtle Farm is
The Turtle Farm is overcrowded. That's its main problem, fix that and the turtles will be way better off.
Soo - will the English stop
Soo - will the English stop hunting foxes; or eating innards & Black Pudding?
This is OUR culture your'e messing with.
It's a FARM!! We're putting back into the wild more that we consume, so ease off selector
CNS: Foxhunting was banned in 2004 because public opinion determined that it was cruel, even though it had been deeply ingrained in English culture for about 400 years.
Who cares if Sir Paul is
Who cares if Sir Paul is onboard. The last time I checked he didn't send us money to help us pay our bills. Stick with sons buddy.
Maybe the Brits should stop
cayman is lost..... reading
cayman is lost..... reading these posts with so many trying to defend the indefensible(without any sensible reasoning) is stomach turning......
You don't need an authority
You don't need an authority figure or celebrity figure to tell you what is right from wrong. If you are starving in a far away country, maybe catching fish and "killing" them is the only way of having a decent meal for the day - that is justifiable. But here in the West, we have everything we need to become vegetarians, but somehow the powers-that-be and greedy companies selling vegan products expensive, make it hard to become vegetarians when we have the natural resources. Anything for health is skyrocketing and harder to afford. At the same time, many may not know this, but the slaughterhouse factories, are producing more carbon emissions than all the cars and trucks combined in the world! If we get rid of all those factories and bend our animal cravings, we have save the ozone layer. - look into the site for stats - http://www.mercyforanimals.org/ . In certain parts of the world, when meat is a necessity for survival it is justifiable, but when there is cruelty to animals, torture, mistreatment and we have the options of living a vegetarian lifestyle and saving the ozone layer of this planet, then I am activist for a cause. I am against torture. I am against mistreatment. In the old days, before folk slaughtered a cow, they would place hands on the cow and pray. The animal was never tortured before its death and it was in good health. Now if you ever look inside these slaughterhouse and see what PROFIT and DEMAND has made us become, just see the site mercyforanimals... you will see what is going on... the food you are eating when you visit these fastfood places. Trust me, it makes you want to hunt for your own food or become a vegan. And then... think about this - if man can be so cruel and indifferent to these creatures on a daily basis, how was this treatment different towards the Jews during the time of the holocaust; or, if there is another holocaust will you want to be farmed, pen up, and tortured? There is a saying liken to this- you can tell a good person by the way he treats animals. Interestingly only two major religions in the world teach not to kill animals: Hinduism and Buddhism. I encourage you to view this video on the slaughterhouse industries - http://www.fowlplaymovie.com/
Unison - Thank You, THANK YOU
Unison - Thank You, THANK YOU for your comments. I have been researching the benefits of veganism as a means to end world hunger, save the environment and solve today's human health issues for years now. Its the toughest thing in this world to go up against the people with the money padding others' pockets but if we can get more people to go vegan then we can make a difference. Less people eating meat = less demand = less slaughterhourse and transport = a greener, healthier place to live.
Hold on a cotton picking
Hold on a cotton picking second. Who are YOU to decide exactly what I am allowed to eat? What if the shoe was on the other foot and I slandered your eating of all our green vegetation and said YOU were causing the eco system to become off balanced and YOU are in fact creating Global Warming...!!!!!!
Listen I can see all sides of a story BUT I am not going to force someone and TRY to force someone to become a Vegetarian so I can sleep better at nights.
Keep in mind God created all things INCLUDING VEGETABLES so obviously maybe we were not suppose to eat at all??? You do know PLANTS are living also right? Who looks out for them? Is there a PETP out there? Or maybe a WSPP?
But yes I would agree with you the world is turn up on its butt. The cheap things are terrible for you and good stuff we can not afford despite the fact of us having some much green on the planet. The problem is DRUG Companies and food manufacturers all trying to make a small fortune. They realise that they can MAXIMIZE profits this way. Drug companies are said to have cures for many ailments but why CURE while you can ease and make a crap load more money out of it.
Anyways my point is:
1) You are in no position to tell me what to eat so long as I am not a canibal and eating humans.
2) You are right that drug and food companies only want to making a fortune on us and it's high time governments came down on them because every country in teh world is getting obese.
"dont let me down" cayman,
"dont let me down" cayman, your going down the " long and winding road" to a "revolution" in cayman. you must be living in a "yellow submarine" i guess not to see " something" is wrong with the turtle farm.
let them go to be "free as a bird" and "let it be" ok?
they deserve to be swimming in an "octopusses garden in the sea" dont listen to the "fools on the hill" cos "all you need is love" and they need "all your lovin" to be free again. no need to call "dr robert" just let them free. so "dont let me down" who knows they might even make it " back in the ussr " some of them. anyway. im off town so im going to "drive my car" urghhhhhhhhhhhh.
love you paul. lol
Kill the messenger and ignore
Kill the messenger and ignore the message. How smart. Doesn't change the facts, people. I don't care who gets on the bandwagon: the truth is the truth. Turtle Farm is in terrible condition.
Just what we need,
Just what we need, another foreigner telling the Cayman Islands what we must do. Mr. McCartney, you’re playing in the wrong key sir!
Typical scouser! What have
Typical scouser!
What have the Brits done for us? But they want to tell us what to do eh.
Be very careful with the what
Be very careful with the what have the Brits done for you comment my firend, because they have done quite a bit:
1. The Brits granted Cayman its tax haven status, which allows for its listing as one of the most popular, lucrative offshore jurisdictions in the world.
2. Do you think your $ would be as strong if it were not linked to the British pound
3. Caymanians hold UK passports which allows your people to enjoy rights and priviledges as a citizen of the UK
4. Your people/children are allowed and education, health care benefits and in some instances social service benefits.
So before you strike out at the UK for one persons comments, be mindful of where you might be without jolly old England!
1. False. That fictional
1. False. That fictional account is good for tourists but does not have any historical basis.
2. It is not linked to the British Pound. It is pegged to the U.S. dollar and its value is set based on our US dollar currency reserves. Nothing to do with the UK although when the the value was originally set it based on 1/2 of the value of the British Pound.
3. Some Caymanians took this up after British Citizenship was finally granted in 2002.
4. You are only allowed those things if you live in the UK.
Honestly, before this I have
Honestly, before this I have never heard of the WSPA, so quite frankly who cares what the hell they think. It is quite obvious their sensitivities are offended that the Caymanian people eat turtle. I pursonally don't eat it but how dare they try to "recreate" our people into their image of what is right.
Their main issue is the "farm" aspect of the CTF. They are like so many environmental groups that try to use sensationalism and scare mongering to reach their object - controling others.
I guess all of their members are vegitarian. Hypocrites
It seems that no one on this
It seems that no one on this forum has watched the youtube video.Overcrowded tanks,dirty tanks,bleeding and damaged turtles,deformed turtles.Its very damning situation.
It makes me rethink life in general. The turtles should be treated humanely because if pets where raised in those condition the owners would be hauled away by the law immediately.
Well Paul should come to
Well Paul should come to cayman so we can get some tourism and then use those funds to make the farm into a wonderful research facility. My turtle getting fat ya now so you know wa time it is bo bo!!
Time for an isolated
Time for an isolated ignoramus to have his supper?
"Someone's knocking on the
Nearly 100 WB Turtle Farm
Nearly 100 WB Turtle Farm "employees" are at the receiving end of the $10 million dollars per year taken out of all our pockets. How many of these comments defending animal cruelty on the grounds that "other farms do it too" and slamming the well-meaning efforts of the WSPA and Paul McCartney are from them?
Further, it said in the first article that WSPA tried for months to work "with the Turtle Farm" to find common ground and improve conditions BEFORE they went public. CTF had plenty of warning and did nothing.
And exactly what would be the downside of a well-run, cost-effective and humane facility with a focus on conservation and improving the Cayman Tourism experience?
Turtle Farm visitors are very often horrified and at one time there was a full-time employee stationed at the exit gate for no other purpose that to try to calm people down and do damage control. I saw this once while waiitng for some tourist friends to emerge.
Farming is allowed in the EU
Farming is allowed in the EU of various kinds of animals, many kinds in fact, subject to certain sanitary laws and cruelty laws. And even then the system fails occasionally in terms of infection from feed stock and so on, leading to BSE, Swine Fever, Bird Flu and so on. In Scotland every 1st of August, Grouse can be shot. Pheasants too, Foxes hunted. These are part of the traditions of the UK and various other nations. People protest about it, but it is the tradition there.
In CEE and Russian in particular, real fur is worn with pride in winter. Wearing of leather shoes is much better for your feet than plasitc ones, and billions do so. Fish farming is growing, as is Ostrich, kanagroo and so on...
Turtle is a cayman tradition, and as long as it is done in a clean and humane way, it has got to be better than killing off the wild ones.
The problem is, the minute you get a cuddly, lovely little critter, the world goes mad. With world population approaching 7bn and not enough resources to feed them all, plus weather changes, it may be that more turtle farming is needed in future. Cayman, if it invested and ran it properly, could lead the way.
Say what you will about
Say what you will about tradition, but these are critically endangered animals, like the delicious dodo birds of Mauritius. It is no different than if some cattle rancher in Africa decided to raise Black Rhino's so he could cut off and sell the horns, testicles, and gall bladders. It's totally uncool on a global scale - particularly if you are spinning it as some kind of conservation effort.
You are right, and that was
You are right, and that was my entire point.
They are critically endangered and need protection from the poachers and hunters.Therefore better to provide what is needed via proper, well regulated and humane farming and try to educate people not to need those products.
However experience shows that is a long road and many specie may run out of time before the teaching works...
There seems a high
There seems a high correlation between supporting the eating of turtle and poor English and logic. Maybe someone should research the effect on the brain of eating diseased turtles.
Well we already know the
Well we already know the effect of English mad cow disease which seems to afflict many of the posters on here.
Love these posts. Everyone in
Love these posts. Everyone in Cayman has an opinion about everything in the rest of the world, mostly negative, but let the world have a negative opinion of something in Cayman and it"s "who are they to talk." You guys are going to lose this one and the only question is how much damage you inflict on yourself alkong the way.
Seriously, have these guys
Seriously, have these guys taken a look at where Kentucky Fried Chicken and US grade a eggs come from comes from? Try worrying about the log in your own eyes first, folks.
CNS: This is what the WSPA says about factory farming.
I am very much in full
I am very much in full support of these peoples' concerns in regards to animal cruelty. My point is charity begins at home. If they actually succeed in closing some of their own farms the rest of the world will take note.
Sometimes it seems that this world is gone completely mad. I have seen you tube videos of farms where people raise animals for their furs and at 'harvest' time they take the animals outside, stand on their heads and skin the animals alive and leave them there to die.
There are videos of people (human beings) cutting up and eating live crabs, shrimp, octopus etc. and putting them alive on red hot grills, and it seems the more the poor animals suffer the better they taste. Words like gross and horrific do not even come close to describing the actions of these maniacs.
Next they will be telling us
Next they will be telling us to stop eating chicken because chickens have now become houshold pets. Thee bleeding hearts should be ignored. Gwan.
Thank you Sir Paul. Many
Thank you Sir Paul. Many many residents of the Cayman Islands oppose this disgusting hole of a turtle farm. It is dirty, badly run and cruel. But many of us cannot express our opposition because our jobs would be at risk as our work permits and residence status can be taken away from us on a whim by an oppressive government and their cronies. The turtle farm staying open is of political importance to local poltiicians, because, and I know this sounds unbeleivable, the provision of turtle meat helps to secure votes and is alleged to be of "cultural signifcance" (some "culture" that must be). So trust me when I say there are many of us grateful for your support.
Dear Paul, You are a person
Dear Paul, You are a person that has travelled many places in the world I presume? You have travelled in many first world countries also. I feel that if we are talking about apples to apples and oranges to oranges we should be fair. We have been successful in creating the only turtle farm in the world. But since its inception we have had nothing but walls placed in front of this farm and many other farms trying to to help endangered species.
Nothing anyone can do in western countries can take away the history and culture of Asia.They would love to have a turle farm. So its only a small amount of time befrore turtle farms will start there as the debate heats up here.
This reminds me of all the hollywood movies telling the bad guys to bring their money to the Caymans. Because this was the only place in the world that was money laundering and hiding money. Call it bad luck or envy and jealousy. But today the new tax shelters are in Delaware USA. How typical. Pick on the "little guy ". We don't even have a army or air force.
You do have an Army, A Royal
You do have an Army, A Royal Navy and a Royal Air force by extension of the United Kingdom.
You just don't pay for it.
Well said the Turtle Farm is
Well said the Turtle Farm is an excellent place but many people don't want us to be successful in this respect. As for the movies telling the bad guys to bring their money to the Caymans, this is a myth about it being easy to launder money here, it is the most difficult place in the world to open a bank account. Delaware that is another story that you will never hear about in the international press.
I don't agree with the WSPA .
I don't agree with the WSPA . I also believe that they are sensationalizing their claims of what they think is going on. First of all the Turtle farm was created by renowned scientist Archie Carr who has a National Refuge in Fla. named after him. He was the person who thought that farming would work . What he wanted was to allow native people all around the world to be able to stop harvesting the sea turtles because they believed that green sea turtles were a very important food source and was declining in population. So If he could farm them, they would continue to be a food source irregardless of this decline. But it is historical from the 1800's that the governor of Jamaica had wrote to the King that turtles would become endangered if something was not done about the sailing vessels stopping in Cayman to pick up turtle provisions before going back to Europe. So its been a long time that people have been saying that the population has been going down. Dr. Wood took over the farm along with other scientists who of course were not from Cayman. The farm was successful thru the period of German financing but those environmentalists had to play the emotional card. Poor intelligent creature or how beautiful. Hey what about chickens? My cows would come to me when I called them by name. Don't chicken walk all over the place ? So do they like to be in a coop? I don't know ask them. How about that food we feed them while we ready them before the slaughter. Chickens usually eat roaches ,worms and a lot more stuff you don't want to know about. Chicken coops is a new idea. Didn't hurt anyone before for 1000s of years. As you read this other side of the story ,you will notice I never called it the Zoo, the reserve etc. I called it the FARM. It has always been called the turtle farm. When tourists pay for their tour they know they are going to a farm . They also know we eat turtle. People who might complain about the farm are usually people who have never seen their mother or grandmother wring the neck of a chicken. Well unless you're in Asia you're going to have to kill it before you cook it. That is the humane thing to do. When children hold the young turtles in the holding tanks ( which you can see if you go there ) they sometimes hold them wrong and so they flap their fins. It is easy to correct just slide your hands higher and they will calm down. They are not stressed anymore then a baby being held incorrectly. The tanks will get algae because of the sun, along the walls of the tanks . The attendants clean the tanks regularly like you clean your pool . But the turtles are vegetarians so they can eat the algae too. The floating excrement will flush out . You will notice that the water in the tanks have a flow like a current round and round which helps to exercise the turtles and help with flushing materiel. The pictures of foul water is no more then food being eaten by the turtles and the FOOD mixing with the water for about 15-30 mins. before it becomes clear again . I have a dog in fact I 've had one or two dogs throughout all my life. I have normally kept them outside where they can roam around free chasing rats, cayman rabbit ,cats, people and iguana you name it. Today has changed a lot of the ways we have had to live our lives. But one thing that I have noticed about domesticated animals . They can be naturally nasty eating stuff thats stinking the whole yard. Turtles in Cayman's Turtle Farm are clean very clean .They really don't have as bad an odor as cattle. So the tanks that appear to have a lot of turtles in them really don't. Yeah thats right, The scientists that first figured out how many turtles could be in a tank explained to me that when the tank is empty they only put a turtle in if he has space , next to each other. I asked if really that wasn't crowded and he said no because a third would be on the surface and a third would be on the bottom resting and the other third would be in the middle. Please go to the farm and check what I'm saying to prove it to yourself. When you walk to a tank thats not feeding .Notice that more turtles will be congregated to one side almost on top of each other and there is enough space for each turtle to lay on the bottom separately . Fellow Caymanians have faith and loyalty for each other. We are good people we have been doing this project from 1968 surely we must know what we are doing and are the most qualified people to ask . How many farms has this group managed? How many Turtle scientists do they have in their employ? Most scientist who specialize in this field have had to come to Cayman to write their research paper. Now what does that tell you?
So all the photographic and
So all the photographic and video evidence showing many diseased turtles and/or turtles living in cramped conditions, piled up on top of each other in FILTHY shit-filled water and slime count for nothing do they? With all due respect this is not sensationalised, its just the ugly truth.
Don't turtles enjoy swimming
Don't turtles enjoy swimming around, should they not have enough space to move freely? Have you ever seen a turtle swimming in open water? It is a beautiful thing to see. I used to enjoy going to the turtle farm when I was a child and even then I used to think that there were too many turtles in the tank! It cannot possibly be humane to have turtles stacked on top of each other like that.
Yeah right, search "turtle
Yeah right, search "turtle scientist" in google. Cayman Turtle Farm isn't even on the first page. In fact, Also I think the word you're looking for is Herpetologist.
Till he have a plate of
Till he have a plate of turtle. Bet you he will write a song bout how sweet the turtle meat!
Lmao.
On a side note they just need to up the managment of the turtles within the farm. At the same time they will complain that the green sea turtle is dying off but then, a low population of green sea turtles makes room for marketing for the WSPA. Who then ask volunteers to work for free and then ask for donations so that they can get tax returns etc. Fly their execs all over the world to stay in lovely hotel rooms. Sheesh go solve world starvation or the killing of people on the other side of the planet.
Off to my pot of turtle mmmm mmmmm goooooooood!
Ok I am not listening to the
Ok I am not listening to the Beatles anymore. When is their next concert anyway?
Paul i am Caymanian and i am
Paul i am Caymanian and i am a fan of your music,i will always remember those two massive tunes you did back in the early 1980's in collabaration with Michael Jackson (say say say ) and Stevie Wonder ( ebony and ivory ), but for now old buddy please stay out of our buisness and in the mean time write two more big tunes (no anti- turtle songs please) Thanks!
Maybe he can buy it and close
Maybe he can buy it and close it down so that no government has to do the same and write it off as an expense. It would save us $10,000,000 a year in subsidies too.
Maybe we should all |"Come
Maybe we should all |"Come together" and look at "A Day in the Life" of a slaughterhouse in the UK and then Paul McCartney could leave the Turtle Farm and "Let it Be"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2010/oct/07/animal-welfare-abuse-slaughterhouse
No animal anywhere should
No animal anywhere should have to exist in the hot, unclean, overcrowded habitats that our turtles exist in at the Turtle Farm, an most especially any endangered animals like the Green Sea Turtles. These conditions and the fact that they are forced to eat pellets that is totally foreign to their diet and the pellets do not even consist of anything in their natural diet makes for a very unhumane way to try to save an endangered species. The farm should never have been made into a park. I guarantee most visitors who go there think they are actually going to see some sort of working conservation program where the turtles are cared for and the efforts of the farm actually make a contribution to the wild population. Instead, they go away feeling sick and disgusted that our turtles are in such squalid conditions. It really is shameful, regardless of our past depenence on turtles. I am a Caymanian and I will give up eating turtle meat because it is no longer necessary or beneficial to me and only contributes to the demise of the Green Sea Turtle. I pray that the DOE will offer lectures to the students at all the schools about the danger our turtles are in and also that they will fight for Conservation Laws and harsher punishments for anyone who injures, or kills a turtle or disturbs nesting turtles or their nests. Our Turtle Farm was once a viable operation that made a significant contribution to conservation of the Green Sea Turtle. Now it is a shameful and disgraceful place to visit and a drain on the government funds that all of us are having to pay taxes for on top of Mac A$$e$ spending. I support the closure of the facility as it exists today. If it could be run by qualified and experienced professional Marine Scientists in a way that would make it successful, such as the way the Blue Iguana Recovery Program has been, I would be all for having something else we could be proud of!
Ok ... and? Has he actually
Ok ... and?
Has he actually visited CTF in order to form a valid opinion or is he simply jumping aboard a bandwagon with hopes of remaining relevant?
(Realistically, his endorsement does not bode well for him or WSPA - yet another reason why I am skeptical about this entire campaign.)
Stick to the scientific research and rely less on emotionally captioned photos and plugs by way of over-the-hill, mega-rich, bored celebrities. After all, what am I - an impressionable teeny-bopper?
Will Heather Mills throw in her two cents worth as well?
McCartney's opinion on anything other than (allegedly) legendary music is null and void in my book.
The "two wrongs" defence over
The "two wrongs" defence over this issue is so ridiculous - and overplayed.
In reality, it could very well be "no wrongs" in either case - simply a matter of hypocrisy on the part of those calling for the closure of CTF.
Humans eat meat - different humans from different parts of the world eat different meats ... end of story.
In my opinion, the main issue here is that unlike cow, sheep, pig, duck and chicken slaughterhouses in the USA, UK and EU, the CTF includes an element where people can interact with the "food" as well.
Trust and believe, if tours and visits were allowed at the average slaughterhouse today the world would be overrun with disgusted and newly-converted vegetarians.
This campaign is simply hypocritial, one-sided and unjustifiable.
But 90% of your posts start
I'm with you on this one.
I'm with you on this one. Could the conditions in CTF be improved - without a doubt. Are there farms in the third world where animals are kept in worse conditions - of course.
For the people complaining about the diet and living conditions of the turtles: there is another species where a large percentage of the population do not have enough food to be properly nourished and are forced to live in cramped conditions - it's called the human race.
It's incredible how everyone posts an update on facebook when they hear about the working conditions of Chinese workers, see the Kony video or read about the Syrian unrest, but when it comes to actually doing something about it, they would rather buy a new iphone, upgrade their car or complain about the treatment of an animal which is not native to where they come from.
Thank you, whodatis.
Thank you, whodatis.
Great more negative PR for my
Great more negative PR for my beautiful Island. The managing director and crew really need to get their shit together. The knock on affects of social media in today's society will hamper our tourism product resulting in DoT having to spend millions on a repairing our image. Congrats to you and the turtle farm staff for creating further debt for the residents of these islands. *Round of applause* ,the current and future geneations of these islands would like to thank you for your stupidity.
That's SIR PAUL, to you....
That's SIR PAUL, to you....
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