Cuts could be illegal says CS
Posted on Mon, 07/30/2012 - 17:37 in Politics
(CNS): The Cayman Islands Civil Service Association has hit out at the government’s plans to cut its benefits and has warned of the wider implications to the economy, saying that essentially cutting public sector pay will not help the current situation. CICSA President James Watler indicated that his members had not been consulted in connection with last week's announcement that government workers would have to contribute to their healthcare insurance and pensions. He suggested that the failure to consult with the wider civil service meant his members were “saddled with unacceptable, unworkable and unsustainable recommendations”, which may be illegal.
In a letter to the Deputy Governor’s Office, Watler pointed out that in previous budget discussions government had been advised to take legal advice over the “legality of unilaterally voiding the mutually agreed contracts of thousands of employees,” and noted that it could expose the government to serious liability if it breaches the contracts held by a significant percentage of the service.
The president also pointed to the human impact of the premier’s proposals, which, he said, “significantly outweigh any potential legal implications”, and queried if any assessment had been done about the economic impact the cuts would have on civil servants and their families.
“The Management Council cannot ignore the realities facing its members, who are already struggling against the ever increasing cost of living and for whom these proposals have already created significant uncertainty and anxiety,” Watler stated. “It is easily recognized that any reduction in purchasing power of public service employees will have an immediate and adverse impact on the economy.”
He noted that in the UK cuts to the public sector had resulted in a further contraction of its economy and pointed to the negative impact in Cayman when government rolled-back the cost of living allowance for civil servants, as people reduced their spending and the private sector bore the brunt, with falling sales in goods and services.
Watler claimed the civil service had done its part to support government during the economic crisis and was doing more with less. “For decades the hard, reliable and honest work of the public service has been the backbone of this society and our economy,” the civil servants representative stated.
“The public service has consistently throughout the current financial crisis done its part in supporting the government to meet the needs of the people. Every ministry and portfolio has added services for the public while at the same time reducing overall headcount. CICSA has in the past contributed effective revenue generating and cost saving measures to the government’s budget discussions. Public servants stand ready to do our part in finding sustainable, realistic, balanced and fair solutions,” Watler added.
There was still time to involve the civil service in the budget discussions, Watler suggested, but “unworkable proposals on civil servants’ remuneration” were not the solution.
He said the CICSA management council was willing to engage in open dialogue and asked for the release of all cost saving or revenue generation methods identified for transparent discussion to take place. He asked the deputy governor to address the membership directly and “explain the true position regarding the budget and any proposals that might affect them in order to alleviate the growing fear and uncertainty amongst public servants,” he said.
See Watler’s letter below.
| Attachment | Size |
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| CICSA 2012-07-28 DG Letter (1).pdf | 177.77 KB |
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All the Government has to do
All the Government has to do is to get rid of Boatswain Beach and put our road money into the Treasury, so we can use it the appropiate way, not the McKeeva way. He is using that DART money like it was his own on Nation Building, just so it cannot be legalized. Can you imagine he is distributing that money to children that are studying for things that are not beneficial to our Islands? He should grant these funds for children that have chosen careers that will be public sector jobs in the future.
The leadership of the civil
The leadership of the civil service must become part of the solution and not the problem. Common sense dictates that a small island government can only reasonably sustain a certain number of public employees. Professional managment ought to be able to determine the size of government that is reasonable and sustainable.
Empire builders need to be identified and reined in.
Let in the Chinese to invest
Let in the Chinese to invest and work they have money to invest and their workers are very good, the money will stay here and we would not have to charge taxes or see other revenue measures. Give about 5 to 10 thousand status/residency to Chinese people with investments of $500,000 or more and watch this economy grow without taxes
I suspect the vast majority
I suspect the vast majority of airlift to Cayman does not arrive on KX....it has way too many people for the size of the operation and its operated to the extreme of inefficiency.....if that validates its burden on the people of the Cayman Islands when they are at a serious cross roads for the long term viability of this place then keep it.....if in fact the real net value to Cayman is positive then how about someone actually provide the public with the financial reports for cayman airways? hey now there is an idea.....
Start off with the firing of
Start off with the firing of everyone who stole gas from the Government - they are part of the problem. If you steal from your employer in the Private Sector you are fired with no severance pay. Its called gross misconduct.
Is it possible for CNS to
Is it possible for CNS to find some data about the salaries earned in government compared to the privat sector for similar jobs.
It appears that there is a general hate against civil cervants based on them being overpaid.
I am a civil servant and the privat sector does pay better for my kind of work, but there aren't any oppertunities at the moment. So that shows the opposite.
CNS: What you want is the "July 2008 - Annual Salary Scale for Salaried Staff". Perhaps one of our readers can help? (Update: ignore this CNS answer and read the response from a reader below)
Don't forget when doing your
Don't forget when doing your figures to factor in the cost of pensions and healthcare insurance. The latter costs private sector employees a fortune, so if you were to find a job in the private sector, you will lose a few hundred dollars of your salary paying for that.
Good luck in your job search however. Its hard right now with many private sector employers laying off employees rather than taking them on.
Actually, the reader wants
Actually, the reader wants something different that unfortauntely doesn't exist (average remuneration of public servant vs. average remuneration of private employee doing the same job). People tend to rely on anecdotal evidence when they discuss this topic, which isn't helpful in making an objective contribution to the debate.
However, the 2010-2011 salary scale (when the 3.8% COLA was rolled back) and the "Unique Position by Grade Report" (i.e. every job in the civil service broken down by pay grade) can be found here: http://www.pocs.gov.ky/portal/page?_pageid=2721,5757611&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
What the CS are not thinking
What the CS are not thinking about is that the cost of doing business will increase for everyone. This = higher prices and an even higher cost of living. what they are unwilling to give up in benefits and wages will be heavily out weighed by the $20 loaf of bread in the future. You can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but there is no way to please all of the people all of the time. We have to think of the greater good here and not just of the civil service.
The CICSA is just a fake
The CICSA is just a fake Union with no teeth. Become a real Union so you can order work stopages... aka strikes. Then you will be relevant. Till then, the CICSA is useless.
Clearly someone who has no
Clearly someone who has no understanding of the threat that is posed to the government by a voting block the size of the Cayman Civil Service. If they told bush to "jump" - his response would be " how high ? "
For comparison purposes, my
For comparison purposes, my husband's employers pays half of his premium and he pays $500 in premiums per month for health insurance, plus a $500 per year deductible and a $1000 coinsurance for each family member. Then there are all the things that health insurance doesn't cover at all and anything that doctors in Cayman overcharge for. That means he pays around CI$10,000 per year. He works in the private sector and therefore our coverage means we can go to any doctor.
I am a civil servant but not
I am a civil servant but not a member of the Assoc. Does anything that Mr. Watler or the Assoc say or do apply to me?
If so, why?
To Anonymous (not verified)
To Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 07/31/2012 - 12:52. I believe all employees joining the civil service are CICSA members by default.
No, you are not automatically
No, you are not automatically a member of the assoc upon employment with Govt, Members pay dues to the assoc, i think approx 5 dollars each month.
I am not a member, but i know people who are. It would be interesting to know how many members the Association has, compared to the total civil/public service, to see if this group or union is really representative of the total Govt employees.
Can someone please post the Member numbers?
Also, what does being a non-member mean when the Association negotiates with Govt? Is the decision binding on non-members? Or would non-members negotiate separately?
No we're not. You have to
No we're not. You have to sign up and pay $5/month to be a member.
No. No they are not.
No. No they are not.
The suggestion of the
The suggestion of the “Community Enhancement Fee”, AKA, Income Tax, being charged to work permit holders earning over 20K per annum has left work permit holders “saddled with unacceptable, unworkable and unsustainable recommendations”, which SHOULD be illegal.
“It is easily recognized that any reduction in purchasing power of ANY CAYMAN RESIDENTS, will have an immediate and adverse impact on the economy.”
“These proposals have already created significant uncertainty and anxiety, WITHIN THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY.”
There all fixed.
i wonder if the Government,
i wonder if the Government, including Mr Watler might comment on the CS's that are still on leave (its been a few years now hasnt it) and are sitting at home on extremely high salaries! This has to be irking to everyone in view of what the rest of the CS are facing. In addition to the deadweight CS that remain employed and should have been terminated along time ago they need to address this situation. It is not fair to the hard working CS among you.
I have been watching the
I have been watching the Caymanians and Expats against Taxation Forum over on Facebook. And it's basically a potest against discrimation.
What's are these comments over here? Discrimation!
Why is the Civil Service being attacked? My husband works in the Civil Service collecting minimum wage, and to think this is okay to cut his salary with two dependants, is not okay?
Granted we accept that if this what we have to do, this is what we have to do to save this island from drowning. Then fine. We will do it. But don't attack the Civil Service as if it's their fault the government, can't control their budget.
Everyone will suffer one way or the other. Whether it's a civil servant, expat, private sector worker, retiree, our kids..
Why because... rentals will be empty, people will start losing our homes, creditors will be calling, fees will go up, grocery stores will up their prices, and gas will go up again.
We can bearly walk into to a grocery now with a hand cart, and fill that up much less a actual cart.
Now, people are saying to get rid of civil servants? You know who is going to suffer? The people like my husband, who is already working on minimum wage, about to have his pay cut that has to kids to feed, a mortgage,house insurance, fees and much more like everyone else does.
Ask yourself this question, how are "we" any less human because we are civil servants?
While I agree in theory that
While I agree in theory that civil servants should contribute to health and pension costs because continued non-contribution of sizeable benefits is unsustainable, I can't support the current proposal at this time for implementation in the next month.
There has been absolutely no consultation and information is sparse - which is insulting and shows the respect this current Government has for its people - but based on what has been reported in the Compass from anonymous sources this new proposal will be extremely inequitable. Mr. Watler raises numerous questions that need to be answered immediately.
It's hard to give exact numbers since we don't actually know what the proposal is. However, a quick comparative breakdown based on the Compass numbers shows that a single individual would only pay $104 per month (25% of the individual premium of $416) but an individual with a spouse and children would pay at least $624 per month (conservative estimate of 25% of individual with children premium of $832 + 100% of spouse premium of $416 = $208 + $416). Add in an additional dependent offspring aged 18 - 30 (e.g. full time student) and that's another $116 (25% of adult dependent premium of $464) to potentially total $740 per month.
Now imagine that the first individual (single person) has a salary of $5,000 per month and the second individual (married with two high school aged children and another 18 year old child at UCCI full time) has a salary of $2,500 per month. With contributions toward health care the first individual would give up 2% of his salary while the second individual would give up at least 30% of his salary.
Dat can't wuk.
Civil servants should NOT have gotten the 3.7% COLA back; we all knew Government finances had not recovered and that it was pandering. Reinstate the relatively low salary cut IMMEDIATELY so that the financial hit is proportionate to income and will not disenfranchise low-income civil servants with families.
Then go from there with an open, honest, consultative discussion about public service benefits and where we go from here. Start the process now, but not in this fire, ready, aim way.
The crux of the matter is
The crux of the matter is that all people in Cayman will have to lower their standard of living to support the current level of government spending (aka wastage and corruption).
Getting less is a bitter pill to swallow but that is penalty to be paid for electing several generations of selfish and incompetent politicians.
Caymanians and expats (those who choose to stay) alike will have to get used to the idea of less.
Here is a plan...... Give
Here is a plan......
Give all the Civil Servants a 20% raise. Woo Hoo!
They will be very happy and vote for McKeeva again. Woo Hoo!
After the election, decouple the Cayman Dollar from the US Dollar and let it float on the world currency market.
Then, collect revenues in US Dollars and pay the Civil Servants in Cayman Dollars. McKeeva can then continue to buy votes by giving the Civil Servants generous raises as the Cayman Dollar tanks.
Problem solved. Win-Win. Woo Hoo!
To cut the civil service,
To cut the civil service, just get rid of all the people who stole gas. They are part of the reason we are here in the first place. No disrespect to all the other honest, hard working civil servants out there. We need you.
I work in the private sector,
I work in the private sector, I pay 1/2 of my health insurance & pension. It is hard paying these every month, but I would rather pay them monthly than to not have a job to support my family. I dont see why Government workers cant contribute their share.
I am so sick and tired of
I am so sick and tired of hearing about the cries from the Civil Service. Do they realize that the rest of the working force in Cayman have to contribute to pension as well as insurance. I work for an Authority for the Gov't and have to contribute to pension as well as heath. Why should they be excluded from this!
Strictly speaking he is
Strictly speaking he is probably right about the Government not being able to unilaterally amend their employment contracts. I know the CS operate under a different set of regs because the Labour Law doesnt apply to them but it is true that the Government cannot change the contract without the agreement of the other party to it. I do think that CS shoud contribute to their own health insurance like the private sector does, are CS earning so much less than those in the private sector that they cannot afford it? That is an honest question, not a sarcastic one by the way. I know the salary ranges vary amongst the ministries but they also vary in the private sector from CEOs, Managers down to clerical staff to labourers and still contributions are made by those employees. I will say this though, if CS must contribute they must have the same choices as provate sector employees in terms of health care choices, Gov't can't expect CS to contribute and then only offer them HSA.
Some government jobs do not
Some government jobs do not have a private sector counterpart in the Cayman Islands. It might be hard to determine if prison guards, customs inspectors, firefighters, and certain other functions are paid at a proper level when there is no private sector point of comparison.
Of course government could implement changes on a rolling basis as contracts are renewed rather than unilaterally abrogating contracts. It might set a better example for how the Cayman government handles contract matters.
Govt. implemented a freeze on
Govt. implemented a freeze on new hiring until further notice. Should this not have been extended to statutory authorities and other government bodies, who continue to take on new staff???
James Watler, You should
James Watler,
You should know better. Civil servants all over the world must contribute to their health insurance coverage.
Who do you think you are to expect the citizens of this country to pay health care coverage for civil servants who do not deserve to be treated better than those in the private sector who pay their own insurance 100%?
This is so unreasonable. Government must make decisions and the civil service can not dictate whether the country stays afloat or not.
I'm much afraid you won't get a better deal in the private sector where private insurance sharks are concerned.
The Premier can not be hinged to civil service decisions but must make hard decisions which the civil service must concede. You got off really well as the premier is trying very hard not to lay off civil servants at the mercy of the privae sector that DOES NOT HIRE CAYMANIANS, so be very careful who you are defending you may find your expat subordinate being hired before you as you are a Caymanian. Don't stick your neck out too far for fear of losing it.
Caymanians are still waiting for people to protest on their behalf for jobs to be created and go back to work.
The premier did well in his decision in order to save the country from disaster.
DEAR CIVIL SERVANTS - WHY DO
DEAR CIVIL SERVANTS - WHY DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD PAY ALL OF YOUR HEALTHCARE AND PENSION??? PLEASE TELL US WHY. Because you know something, you are considered being on welfare just like those unemployed people who receive governemtn assistance. YOU ARE ON WELFARE TOO. BECAUSE half of you sit round on your duffs all day doing sh*t while the other half are out running their own businesses. My country is being RUN INTO THE GROUND because of your continuous demands for hand-outs while the Government CANNOT sustain itself any more in this manner.
Come out here in the REAL WORLD. Get a job in the private sector. Let's see how fast you lose your job, your health insurance that you have to pay part of and contributions to your pension. I pay $1000 a month for my health insurance for my family of 5. I contribute to my own pension. Maybe my wife and I dont drive 2012 cars or live down Governors Harbour in a 5 bedroom house. But we are happy and health and productive citizens, NOT draining the coffers of Goverment expecting Government to pay everything.
WAKE UP AND SMELL THE REAL WORLD
"My country is being RUN INTO
"My country is being RUN INTO THE GROUND because of your continuous demands for hand-outs while the Government CANNOT sustain itself any more in this manner."
I beg to differ...... this country is being RUN INTO THE GROUND because the Minister of Finance spends, spends, spends!
The last time he was in this mess, the 3.2 % COLA was rolled back. Did he stop spending? No! he continued to spend spend spend.
16:07 Can you give us a
16:07
Can you give us a list of the line items that the Minister of finance wasted money on, which you claim, ran this country into the ground? please!
Well first of all I am sure
Well first of all I am sure that the GT Hospital is NOT the only place you can use your insurance card. I am positive you have the options of using private clinics/doctors.
I too would have NO problem paying half of the cost of insurance if I was going to be allowed to use it somewhere other than the hospital. Example: At the beginning of July I tried to make an appointment for my child to get vaccinated... sound simple enough...... earliest appointment I could get was in the first week of September. (Phoned Dr. Smith's office, appointment for next day.) Then tried to make an appointment in the Women's Health Clinic....earliest appointment.... end of November. (Phoned Dr. Meggs office-appointment same day) My daughter was sick, phoned GP Clinic 6 times -- no answer. Had to go there in person to make the appoinment which was then for 4 days later. (Over to Chrissie Tomlinson, seen and out in under 1.5 hours.)
That my dear is why I will not pay half of the Cinico insurance.
For the record I do have my own health insurance which covers my family because of the examples stated above. When you pay for something you expect to get value for your money. With Cinico being limited to ONLY HSA, that is next to totally impossible.
If your insurance from your private sector limited you to only the hospital, I am sure you would be reluctant to pay for it.
For that reason we (cs) make
For that reason we (cs) make 1000 less a month than you do.
So if you read below poster
So if you read below poster 7:44, you are the person my dear that I have total sympathy for and I apologize if my rant above offends you. How you can get along at $1,600 a month with one child, I applaud you and your resiliency. Renting a place, taking the bus...that is not the norm for a large percentage of civil servants. It is the workers such as yourself that will be hit the hardest by having to pay health insurance and part of your pensions yourself. Government gave you that lower salary with the bonus that your benefits would be paid. Now government has dug itself deeper into its grave because the lower paid civil servants will be the ones hit the hardest. And that is a damn shame when you look at Big Mac - such a fat cat riding hihg on $12k a month, so fat that he had to have a medical procedure to slim down while the lower civil servants can barely put 3 meals a day on the table for their familes. Big Mac is an embarassment to my country and should hang his head in shame.
"WHY DO YOU THINK THE
"WHY DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD PAY ALL OF YOUR HEALTHCARE AND PENSION??? PLEASE TELL US WHY"
Because, like the private sector that signed contracts expecting a bonus each year, we signed a contract stating that CIGOVT would pay our health insurance and pension.
I am a CS... My plan..send
I am a CS...
My plan..send away my wife and children..next few months
Rent out room in our apartment..
Fix up our apartment....(children made it a mess)
Get a job overseas and rent my apartment...
How is this going to help Cayman??...Caymanian & British
I spend my 90% of salary in Cayman since I was born as most Caymanians...If you just cut CS you will cut many families who will leave and might be replaced by single persons from overseas who will then send money home...
Since Gov has a hiring freeze they won't replace me....
The only cure is to send home the expats in the CS and merge departments such as fire/police and customs. Or secure employment for the many accountants in CIG in the private sector.
You think it is a joke but I am dead serious...my wife is gone by Jan (she is out of work past 2 years) ...My children are going to overseas with family starting this September for school....
...PS I always voted with my mind not with my wallet so I know I did my part..No hard feelings and Cayman will always be my homeland and if I can't build it up here I will go abroad and build it while away. My grandfather did it this way so I don't see why I can't
I hated buying that apartment but thank the Lord as I would never be able to rent a house in Lower Valley and cover the mortgage
To Anonymous (not
To Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 07/31/2012 - 08:11. FYI civil servants contribute 5% of their salary towards their pensions.Salaries were increased at the same time deductions started to cover contributions Some people do not realize it because it shows as a separate amount on their payslips,but make no mistake civil servants this is not an allowance it is part of your basic montlhly salary.Don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise.You are already contributing 5% of your salary towards your pension and Government matches your contribution.The only reason reason this pay increase is shown separately is to keep down overtime rates.So DON'T GIVE UP ANYMORE OF YOUR PAY FOR PENSION CONTRIBUTION UNLESS YOU ARE TDOING SO TO RECEIVE A BIGGER PENSION,YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING THE REQUIRED 5%.
i am in the real world with
i am in the real world with what i make i would be on the streets if gov took 1000 out of my salary. Gov gave us the contract with pension and medical thats is part of our benefits for the low salaries.
once again...just get rid of
once again...just get rid of kx and boatswain's beach...it will hurt but that is your 50 million right there....why is it that these two entities are never spoken about?
The idea of getting rid of KX
The idea of getting rid of KX is just a small step below the level of idiocy behind this proposed Tax. The problem with traditional accounting is that you only see the direct cost vs direct revenue of KX. The operational loss posted is minimal compared to everything that is gained in room revenue, dining out, shopping etc from the airlift that KX brings in. Saying that KX should be cut or sold is like saying that we should get rid of the DOT because they don't create any direct revenue to CIG. KX needs to be run more efficiently yes, but it is one of the main arteries for the life of these islands.
absolute nonsense......
absolute nonsense...... governments should not be running airlines.....
it could be sold with lot of conditions attached...re emergency airlift, min number of flights, brac service.....
Yes to Boatswain's Beach but
Yes to Boatswain's Beach but KX stays. It needs to be streamlined though.
cyaman airways is the sacred
cyaman airways is the sacred cow........the national flag carrier and all that nonsense....
Yup, it sure runs like a cow.
Yup, it sure runs like a cow.
It is shocking to see how
It is shocking to see how most people talk about the civil servants.
These are people with names, they really excist.
But you talk about them as leeches. Is this Caymanian ?
Salaries of civil servants are generally (lower income bracket) lower than in the privat sector, since health insurance and pension are included.
The negative view on civil servants is caused by the way it is managed and the political influence on day to day operations.
A decrease of several hundred dollars per month will result in home foreclosures and demotivation and loss of commitment.
I have never seen so many expensive cars on the road as in the last few years. THAT is were the money is. Developers making millions, by not having to pay duties, import taxes etc.
Houses are built in the millions, gated communities for the rich.
It are the expats AND the civil servants who are going to pay for it.
This WILL have consequences . . . .
Rather than whole job cuts
Rather than whole job cuts (although some will definitely have to be made) take on a full review of salaries across the board. Some CS positions make over $200k a year. It only takes a quick look at the classifieds in the Compass to realize there are hardly any private sector positions available with pay in that range. Take back the 3.2% (which was only taken the first time around after a 10% avg increase) as a start and we're on our way to the savings needed.
Cuts illegal cuts
Cuts illegal cuts illegal civil service association boy you guys are clearly part of the problem and not solutions and handout specialist every thing must free so you can slurp at the public trough.A general clean out of this body is badly need to get this place back on track .
Spoken by a true
Spoken by a true representative of the cause of the problem
Either the Governor or Bush must commission an intependent study of the Cayman Government.
We desperately need to find out whether or not a government of this size and expense makes any sense for this small area and population .
Has anyone ever computed the cost per capita of the Cayman Government? Has anyone ever compared this cost to that of a small city of 50,000 residents?
We feel the cost of government whenever we purchase anything, because every dime the government seizes has to be recovered in the price we pay for any goods or services.
You would think this fact should be of much more concern to the Cayman people than what it seems to be. Is pricing yourself out of the market and causing your industries to leave for friendlier shores what you really want? Do you want the economy to shrink or grow? Do you want layoffs or growth?
These are crucial questions. Cayman could live or die depending on which way it answers them.
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