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Chinese not port problem

cruise ship at port.JPG(CNS): The nationality of the Beijing based developer that is currently in negotiations with the UDP government to develop the George Town cruise berthing facilities is not the problem, the Cayman Islands governor has said. Governor Duncan Taylor told CNS that the UK cannot offer its support to the project as it stands because of the failure of government to follow the correct process and establish a proper business plan with parameters for the development. The governor told CNS that the UK understands the need for cruise facilities and does not object to China Harbour Engineering Company itself but it will not sanction the project under the current circumstances.

Following up on comments made by the UK’s overseas territories minister, Henry Bellingham, during his recent visit to the Cayman Islands about the need for the project to follow international procurement practices, the governor said that the project could not be shaped, designed, financed and built by the developer without a proper tendering process. The Cayman government had to set out a clear case for what was needed and then find a developer to fulfil the government’s requirements.

The premier has repeatedly stated, however, that he wishes to go ahead with the CHEC proposal as he says the firm is offering the best deal Cayman could hope to get. The premier picked CHEC after the company allegedly approached the government, since the firm did not respond to the original expressions of interest assessed by the Port Authority in the early days of the UDP administration.

McKeeva Bush has favoured CHEC, he says, because the deal includes a pier for West Bay, an upgrade of the jetty at Spotts and possibly a pier in Cayman Brac, all of which will be financed by the Chinese firm.

However, the governor has pointed to the fact that the firm would be recouping its investment from port passenger tax, which is still public revenue. Taylor said that without a clear plan or justified business case for the cruise berthing project and allowing the developer to specify what it would do, costs were in danger of spiralling out of control.

In the face of comments made by the premier and others that it was the involvement of a Chinese company which was behind the UK’s objections to the George Town port project, the governor told CNS that this was simply not true.

“Neither the FCO nor I have said anything about dealing with the Chinese," he said. “It’s about process and procurement.”

The governor made it clear that the UK would not sanction the port project until a proper business case is put together that sets limits on the development and prevents add-ons, especially as public money is at stake. He said that if the project was tendered in accordance with international procurement procedures, it would be perfectly possible for the Chinese to win or even be defined as the preferred bidder but he pointed out that it must be government and not the developer that sets out the plan for the project. Taylor noted that already during the negotiating process the plans had changed and it was not usual for the supplier to decide what would be built.

“It has already escalated to a $300 million project from a starting point of around $175 million, which is what happens when there is no business plan in place,” he added.

The governor said that the UK minister has already set out what he means by international procurement standards to the premier and how to get the project back on track. Taylor added that there were still several hurdles to overcome before the project would get UK backing.

Despite the challenges he now faced with the deterioration in the relationship between the premier and himself, Taylor said that such tensions were not unusual between the office of the governor and the elected officials. The governor said that his focus over the next two years would be on improving the public sector and helping to develop a better civil service for the Cayman Islands and ensuring good governance.

Comments

Mac, whose territory is it

Mac, whose territory is it now?

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It's purgatory now, my frend.

It's purgatory now, my frend. Thanks to Mac.

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Ok then, who made the deal

Ok then, who made the deal with the Chinese???? Do I need to say anymore?  Three investigations going on, how much longer do we have to wait till the outcome????? XXXX

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Outcome??? What difference

Outcome??? What difference does will it make?? Nothing!! Who will replace him?? Another fool XXXX.... Another political party full of people who have no idea how to run the country, or understand the economic position of this country in the world, no sense of foreign policy, no understanding of the rule of law and will ultimately sell out people of the island to the ultimate advantage of the UK. Locals will complain and complain and complain, but will they vote ?? No!!   The overall complacencent mentality is appalling on every level that matters.  The only winners are the investors which are biding their time and waiting for Government to admit or declare it's bankruptcy before they swoop in... It's happening already! Why can't you people see that? There is nothing wrong with investment, development or change - but at the expense of no investment in local education, environment, culture , employment, housing for your people??? This place is so small and the locals should have first class education and educational establishments, at the very least the children should be able to read by the time they leave school, at the very least. Crime and the security of the island should be contained. Government, governmental agencies and the country's inhabitants have to be accountable for their actions.   Cayman is still considered an important Financial centre with reputable banks, retail and otherwise on island and we still have bank robberies, I thought we only saw these things in the movies...come on.  Where is the CCTV?? Voters think long term for your children. What is the solution for this country??

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This is what happens when we

This is what happens when we pay elected leaders too much.

We have career politicians nowadays who have not made it to the top of a career on their own,or through their own successful businesses.

Cayman's success was built on the likes of people like the late Capt. Charles, Mr. Benson and so forth who already were successful on their own. It is time we evaluate what people are bringing to the table, and their track record in 2013.

It is time we become more discriminating in selecting who is gonna lead us. Not just because they can make promises. People are aware that a promise is a comfort only to a fool, so we need more substance than that.

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Ting tang Walla Walla bing

Ting tang Walla Walla bing bang. Nuff nuff. Not too still!
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Good salient points

Good salient points Whodatis.  Even though you got slammed by your peers.  The point here is; there are rules in place and play by the rules.  Which begs the question, why not play by the rules and the long overdue berthing facility could easily get built.

It is beyond simple why not.  What may be good for the country may not be good for the politician(s).  Think of yourself as Jamaica and you got a pretty good gig going on with your new port.  Oh, but if GC gets a real cruising port, where are the ships going to want to go.  No brainer.....GC.

Lot at stake for Jamaica.  So how can we make it worth your while not to make the GC berthing port come to fruition?????  That's just one of many islands with something to lose.

As I always say, Follow the Money.  That's how the real decisions are made, good, bad or indifferent.  All they care about, is what's in it for me.  Just my 69 cents worth.

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http://centralcitynews.us/?p=

Thank you. It is a sad,

Thank you. It is a sad, unfortunate fact that our precious UDP gowerment could not possibly care less about who or what the chinese or their intentions are or what happens to Cayman and it's people so long as they have their own way in this country in their own ignorant, deplorable self interests.

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Thank you,  we should all be

Thank you,  we should all be wary of the world domination scenario in which small nations such as ours, (as well as currently African countries,) are being gobbled up by the Chinese.

Let Cayman be in charge of Cayman's future.

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The US military is still

The US military is still second to none. Knowing this, along with the increasing opposition by the American people with regards to trade with Communist China, the US needs a leader who is not afraid to do the following: 

1) Refuse to trade with China unless China begins to change its human rights practices.

2) Refuse to trade with China until China stops keeping its currency artificially devalued.

3) Increase tariffs on all imported goods from China.

  

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The American people don't

The American people don't have an issue trading with Communist China, if they did, their imports from China would not have increased by 300% between 2004 and 2008 alone. It is also oversimplification at best to suggest that all you need is a President who is not 'afraid' and is willing to increase tariffs, the issue is much more complicated than that, such a decision also has both serious financial aswell as political implications. The fact of the matter is that we can most likely expect in the not so distant future a serious devaluation of the US dollar, which will have serious financial ramifications for the US and other countries such as the Cayman Islands who are pegged to the US dollar. Another reality is that China will most likely become the next superpower, the writing is on the wall, the question is where will the Cayman Islands and it's people be when the dust finally settles. Furthermore the UK is in no position to layout financial advice for the Cayman Islands, have they forgotten the headlines in the UK of how they grew their debt to 2trillion pounds and nationalized 4 banks, is that Leadership? Was it not the same United Kingdom who allowed the reckless spending during the previous administration, of course it was, so what was their plan, their plan was and is, '...to destroy the Cayman Islands as a offshore financial centre' and just like how the US are afraid to say NO to China so is the UK, so what do you do, attack the process. The UK wants the UDP to fail in their efforts because it will mean they have no other alternative but to do what they were instructed to do by Chris Bryant in 2009, and that was to implement taxes, and why is that impiortant, that means that Cayman will no longer be a tax neutral jurisdiction, which makes us no different than Ireland at best, and if hurricane Ivan and other onerous pieces of regulation sent business to Ireland with a 12% tax, what will losing our tax neutral status do? Pack it boys, we're going home. Wake up Cayman don't let your political bias cause you to lose your country.
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An over simplification of a

An over simplification of a complex world event. The UK fared or behaved no differently than that of almost every other major economy, with the exception of Canada and perhaps Australia. This nonsensical argument that the UK wants to destroy Cayman is pure propaganda and holds no credible evidence to support it. Yes, the last UK administration did tax and spend, as Labour governments historically do, however it was the reliance on credit and unregulated banks that really did the damage. The reality is that if Cayman cannot balance its books through current revenues, then it will have no choice other than income/personal taxes, thats basic stuff, not a conspiracy theory put out by scare mongering isolationists. 

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The evidence is right on the

The evidence is right on the Internet for you to find and prove what the UK's intentions are. Do a search for Gordon Brown who was once Exchequer and then the Prime Minister of the UK and see if you don't find, in his words not mine, that he is going to destroy the cayman islands as a financial centre. If thats not plain English I don't know what is. Add those comments to a bit of your night time reading and tell me if he could say that in his capacity then tell me why and how this is a mere conspiracy theory.
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Muppet !!! Brown isn't in

Muppet !!! Brown isn't in government anymore.

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Thank You! That is a good

Thank You!

That is a good link and should be read by those idiots who still think the Chinese building of our port is a good idea...

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You Tube - "Cruis Ship breaks

You Tube - "Cruis Ship breaks mooring"

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Thank you Governor Taylor for

Thank you Governor Taylor for looking after our interests and preventing the Premier and the UDP Govt from circumventing the system and tendering process. By law all Govt contracts over $100,000 must go through the Central Tenders Committee. The UDP Govt needs to explain how a $150m increases to $200m and then jumps to over $300m and why none of their projects ever seem to go to tender. Little that the UDP Govt has done is for the best interests of the country. Sadly it is all about self interests at heart, while they sell out their people and their country in collectively following their leader like sheep to the slaughter.

There are laws against the abuse of public office and public positions to promote, engage or benefit from self interest, however I ask why are the corruption laws never applied over the many years of corruption abuse by certain public elected officials and their appointees and supporters.

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Read it and weap, taken from

Read it and weap, taken from this past Sunday's Observer.

Aside from Cayman, only a handful of Caribbean destinations do not have any berthing facilities for cruise ships. That includes St Barts, St John (US Virgin Islands) and Virgin Gorda (British Virgin Islands).

The list of destinations that do have cruise berthing include Antigua, Aruba, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Bermuda, Curacao, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Grand Turk, Grenada, Haiti (Labadee), Honduras, Jamaica, Martinique, Mexico, Panama, Puerto Rico, St Croix (USVI), St Kitts and Nevis, St Lucia, St Maarten, St Thomas (USVI), Tortola (BVI), and Turks and Caicos.

 

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Eh?? I'm reading a lot of UK

Eh??

I'm reading a lot of UK this, and FCO that.

Have any of you spoken with a mainland Brit recently?

Britain only talks the talk, but they do not walk the walk.

BOT's like the Cayman Islands are the last hope for them to exercise some global "power" in this year of 2012.

The current double-dip recession and unemployment figures is proof that their economy has failed - and let us not get into the crime and societal challenges that they are facing.

E.g. European companies are now out-sourcing car manufacturing jobs from Germany and to the UK and Poland - yes, UK and Poland. (German worker demands 43 Euros per hour - whereas a British worker makes only 25 Euros.)

"Third world" Britain, anyone? Talk about a failed economic policy coming back to bite you in the ass!

This is due to the fact that they can pay British and Polish workers lower wages than they are able to in a functioning and successful economy such as Germany's.

Alas, the UK is today on the same playing field as the 'lowly' Eastern Europeans. Now the British economy is competing with Poland for jobs ... are we paying attention?!

Let us educate ourselves to the reality of the world today rather than spew out irrelevant and outdated rhetorical as it pops into our heads.

There is not a single good reason why we ought to wholeheartedly depend on the UK for pointers of how to govern a nation or run a successful economy.

In any event, they have enough on their plates as they try to chase down that £38 BILLION of wasted and fraudulently acquired public funds of the past year alone.

I simply could not allow this orgy of misinformation to go unchallenged.

As you were ...

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Really, you refer to the

Really, you refer to the trashiest newspaper on the planet to reinforce your point? Must try harder than a gossip monger for real news.

How much was positively identified as fraud against other waste?

No answer? Didn't think so, try a real source of news for your political bull, not a leftwing American blog.

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Don't you know Whodatis has

Don't you know Whodatis has only but one argument for every topic posted on CNS - the British are no better than us, they can't preach to us as they are woeful examples to follow, and therefore we shouldn't listen to anything they have to say, according to him.  Same tired old arguments, he can't come up with some new material yet.  Sounds like a broken or scratched record.

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Dear respondents, Please

Dear respondents,

Please excuse me.

I forgot to remember that only Cayman is susceptible to criticism here on CNS.

Interestingly, we are subject to all types of outlandish attacks and conclusions on a daily basis - however, the minute one highlights the factual reality of another country, even within the context of a topic at hand - some people get their panties all in a bunch.

Give me a break.

In any event, my words were not even intended for the most vocal of my opposition. (I know better than to expect certain groups of people to accept certain realities.)

Instead, they were directed to the minds of my fellow Caymanian people in order to help them see things as they really are.

I cringe everytime I hear or read of my people regarding one of the most shambolic economies in the western world as sound examples for us follow.

It is nothing but mental slavery by way of rhetoric and 'brainwashery' as the reality in no way supports such a stance.

To ignore or dismiss such gross errors of judgement would be a great disservice onto my country.

Am I wrong?

 

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Facts from the SUN and the

Facts from the SUN and the Huffington Post, are you serious?

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YES, YES, YES how many more

YES, YES, YES how many more times do you need to hear it?

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And therein lies the rub. You

And therein lies the rub. You are not only arrogant enough to believe that you are addressing 'YOUR' people, as if you are some kind of messiah to the Caymanian people. But then you follow it up by making pronouncements that are complete rubbish and financially incompetant.

Your attempt to invoke 'mental slavery' and 'brainwashing' thoughts in the minds of your peers is nothing short of desperation now that you realise your argument is garbage and doesn't stand up to scrutiny. 

Okay genius, what's your solution for getting yourself out of this position of your own design? The truth is you don't have one, so you resort to the age old, chip on your shoulder technique of colonial bashing. You are not preaching facts, just nonsense from your own small mind, get off the island and see how the real world works instead of making sermons that amount to nothing. 'REALITIES', you wouldn't know them if they hit you across the butt with a banjo. 

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Grow up, wage restraint is an

Grow up, wage restraint is an example of responsible fiscal planning not the sign of a third world nation, idiot!

The Euro is obviously in dire trouble, a fact lost on you is that the UK played a wise hand and stayed out, hence the UK are better suited to manufacturing than Germany at the moment. You also need to take into account the strength of the Euro/Sterling/US Dollar and future performance and possiblities The last country in the world that any one would take manufacturing or responsible economic advise from is this shabby example of a whinging dependance culture.

Perhaps Cayman should learn that high wage demands result in companies re-locating their business and manufacturing, Germany's loss is definately the UK's gain. Or are you really that dumb that you can't work out basic economics?

You have absolutley no clue how the rest of the world functions and to think that competition between countries is wrong is just plain stupid. Thats why your economy and country, as a whole, is in the mess its in, you can't compete because you don't produce anything except retoric that makes no sense to the wider world. Open up your businesses to outside competition and employ more local people so reducing costs, instead of having small family monopoly's that price fix, keeping the cost of living high.

In regard to global power, believe me, no one in the UK cares one jot about the Cayman Islands, they see them as a hub of ill gotten gain and a Hollywood stooge for crime dramas. To think that you are that important in the lives of UK citizens is plain self important arrogance. We have our young men and women dying in god foresaken hell holes, we don't need to weald colonial power on a rock the size of Disney World. We're a little pre-occupied killing terrorists that once took advantage of your financial system and brought chaos to the world. 

 

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Lol ... oh my

Lol ... oh my goodness!

Typical 'shifting of the goalpost' reply here.

Re: " ... wage restraint is an example of responsible fiscal planning not the sign of a third world nation, idiot!"

" ... the UK are better suited to manufacturing than Germany at the moment."

"Germany's loss is definately the UK's gain."

Yes poster, it was the UK's long-term strategy to out-source and kill the vibrant economy of British-owned manufacturing and industries in order to be able to bring back mere low-wage jobs in the end.

Alrighty then.

Who do you think you're talking to, buddy?

You know what you are saying is absolute hogwash as does the rest of the British population.

You are walking in that very spirit of a two-mode approach that I strive to highlight to my fellow Caymanians.

On one side is the reality - and on the other is the bull$hit such as your post that is often forwarded to outsiders and the less-informed.

Try again.

Anyway - shouldn't you be preparing for another round of nation-wide riots, arson, ABH's, GBH's, murders and attacks on police this summer? After all, how else will the idle, disenfranchised and just plain old lazy "on-the-dole", 12 - 29 year olds get that latest Iphone?

Seriously, your government is in no position to lecture any one else about economic or societal management.

*Btw, I am perplexed as to how you consider yourself to be well-versed in "how the rest of the world functions" but still refer to the British government and its people as a unified and cooperative entity.

Wake up, my friend.

Re: "We're a little pre-occupied killing terrorists that once took advantage of your financial system and brought chaos to the world."

Yes, Tony Blair's now infamous "Dodgy Dossier" really proved all of that to be true, didn't it?

Hmmm ... where is ol' Tony now anyway? Yeah, that's right ... raking in mega-bucks while sitting on the board of a S. Korean oil company based in Iraq.

I'll see you in the morning.

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Whodatis, you are without

Whodatis, you are without doubt the most ludicrously stupid commentator the CNS has seen for some time. Your negativity is completely counter productive and your rantings benial, as every one can see, (take a look at your thumbs up or down numbers) you are living in a world completely detached from reality.

Who do I think I'm talking to? Well, who knows and who really cares. You are a sad example of of a loud mouth with nothing constructive to say.

Not once have you come back with a cohesive plan or idea that will repair your broken economy or society, instead you throw sound bites and insults like confetti, blaming everyone else for your poor judgement and self serving ways. Outsourcing in the UK wasn't the problem, the unions destroyed our manufacturing base through high wage claims and industrial action, again, something that Caymanian workers should note. However, the Japanese make a better family car anyway, so whats the problem? Read your history dummy, the Industrial Revolution was founded on innovation and cutting edge technology, if someone else can manufacture stuff cheaper, let them. You concentrate on research and development and keep ahead of the game. You see, the Chinese maybe able to make things cheaper, but they don't have the technological know how to invent their own versions to the high standards expected by the market. Oh dear, has that gone over your pea sized head, never mind just blame the British, someone will listen.

Anyway, if you are so well informed, where's your fiscal plan and how do you propose to implement it? At least the UK has a plan, albiet unpopular and tough. But hard times call for difficult decisions and despite the pain of recession and deficit recovery, the IMF still approve of the UK governments actions. So, oh wise one from Whoknowswhere, what makes you better qualified to judge world economies than the head of the International Monetary Fund. Oops, you do know Whatdatis, don't you?

Yes, the UK does have some morons who want the latest iPhone and are willing to act like feral animals to obtain them. Name a country that doesn't have such a problem, who do you think has been shooting and robbing their way around Cayman, who is being found with illegal firearms or suspected of illegal property deals and explosives shipments, the tooth fairys? At least we have a culturally diverse country with a population of 60 million to contend with, our problem per capita is minute, whats your excuse?

By the way, I can speak with a little authority about the rest of the world having worked and travelled in over 65 different country's around the planet and speak four different languages. Unfortuantely, not the planet that you come from or the drivel you speak, obviously.

In regard to Tony Blair, yes he should be tried for war crimes, alongside Bush, however its not going to happen, so what's your point? I note that you didn't deny Cayman's suspected involvement in Bin Ladens money laundering.

To finish, I no more speak for the people of the UK than you do for the people of the Cayman Islands, however I do come from a country rich in history and culture obtained over two thousand years. We have nothing to prove but we do have experience and knowledge. What do you have except your bitter musings?

'I'll see you in the morning', I doubt it, you can't see to the end of your nose.

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There is no evidence that

There is no evidence that Cayman had anything to do with any moneylaundering by Bin Laden.

"Benial"?

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NO, the US, UK and other G8

NO, the US, UK and other G8 countries just tightened off shore banking regulations for a laugh after 9/11. I'm sure Cayman wasn't the only off shore banking centre that was utilised by terrorists, drug dealers and criminals, but they sure played their part and probably still do, to a lesser exstent. I don't suppose Cayman, like many such centres want the real truth to come out, but the worlds public aren't fooled by their constent habit of cover up and denial, there's just too much history and fact in the public domain to think otherwise. Why do you think you're in the mess you are, less dodgy money coming down here, corrupt leaders and civil service and a culture or deceit and cover up? Of course and to deny it just makes the situation worse.

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You've said quite a mouthful

You've said quite a mouthful there haven't you?

Do me a favour, buddy.

Scroll back up to my initial post, click on the provided links, and then read the articles and subsequent comments to either news item.

Those are the perspectives of actual Brits, my friend - not mine.

  1. First
  2. Second

Their verdict of the standing of Britain today is a very damning one.

Go - see it for yourself - as obviously you are hell-bent on disregarding any and every thing that Whodatis has to say on the issue.

(Thereafter, feel free to post your thoughts ... bet you won't.)

Anyway, if you were paying attention over the past few days and months you would have realized that I do assess the situation concerning the economy and future of the Cayman Islands. (Do you honestly believe that my existence is based upon the crumbling infrastructure of a crumbling nation?)

Example.

As for thumb ratios, lol! Come on, buddy.

Everyone here on CNS is aware of what is what on this forum.

(Btw, the thumb ratio of my comments in the link were quite favourable - just thought I would highlight the fact since you are clearly caught-up on online democracy, lol!)

In any event, my primary concern is not that of the British economy - instead, it is of the welfare of my economy and my fellow Caymanians.

Once again, I say that for us to consider the UK as a 'north star' in this regard would clearly be a foolish thing to do.

There is nothing you could ever say to negate that fact - the statistics (and opinions of its people) speak for themselves.

By the way, yours were not the last passport or language textbook to be issued, my friend ... get over yourself.

(*Lastly, are you a Brit? Do you live in the Cayman Islands? What is the percentage of Brits currently living in the Cayman Islands that are in a rush to return home? You may find it interesting that a recent poll carried out in the UK found that 50% of Brits, ok let me be fair - 48%, had a desire to leave their country - permanently.)

Anyway, enjoy the links from my first post. I wish you luck in finding a majority percentage of 'real-world' Brits that share your viewpoint ... you're gonna need it.

Regardless, I am certain you will find a way to spin all of the above.

I'm done.

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Your argument would hold

Your argument would hold water if it were not based on a left wing blog and a cheap daily rag. Get real facts before attempting to be the font of all knowledge, whodumbis. And don't try to assume that all Caymanians hold your narrow and isolationist views, they don't and you embarrass them with such unsubstantiated garbage.

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I bet I will. The Huffington

I bet I will.

The Huffington Post, of which you refer to as a UK newspaper, is infact a US website/blog founded in 2005 and purchased by AOL recently. It is noted as a LEFT WING/LIBERAL commentator and does have branches around the US and a very small following in the UK.

Like most websites that rely on reader input and socialist priciples, it is most definately biased against conservative policies, of which the UK currently enacts through the coalition government. Whilst its basic headline maybe a reflection of the total waste in the public sector, it is very careful not to define the percentages of budgetry overspend and other means by which finances are wasted by bureacratic inefficientcy. Being what it is, a mouth piece for the left, it prefers to give the wholly inaccurate total figure to reinforce a spurious argument. Tell me, as its the basis of your argument, exactly what is the figure attibuted to known theft or fraud? I doubt whether you can, because it doesn't suit the position adopted by those who have 'exposed' the supposed fraudulent activity. You and I both know that large governments are inefficient, that's not new news, its a fact all over the world. But the point remains, for such a small country, how did Cayman get itself into this position and why are there so many known examples of fraudulent behaviour that have yet to be confronted?

No one would support the view that the UK figure is in any way acceptable, regardless of how the total is arrived at, however one should not be so niave as to believe that its content is an accurate assessment of the current position. It is easy to fit such claims into an argument if it supports your viewpoint or political leaning. It doesn't prove an issue one way or the other, in fact it was a LEFT of CENTRE government, (New Labour) that manufactured this problem during their tenure, giving rise to the argument that the tax and spend policies of the left are fiscally irresponsible and extremely damaging to the economy over time.

I have read your countless musings over the past weeks and came to the conclusion that your arguments are based firmly in the left wing of politics, hence your reliance on the Huffington Post and other socialist postings on the internet. Whilst you are obviously free to impart your thoughts, you must not fall into the trap of being lured by those who are intent on exposing your weaknesses. Unfortunately, you have done so and your argument is tarnished through inaccurate and politically biased comment.

It is one thing to make ones point in a passionate and forceful manner, however to challenge others, your argument must be based in actual fact and offer an alternative to their equally passionate counter. Quoting others when you are completely convinced of your own case is acceptable when those who are being quoted are authorities in their field, but unacceptable when they are made by casual observers or political commentators. This style of argument exposes your weakness and demonstrates a failure to fully understand the case in question. If you want to illustrate a point, use your own constructive thoughts and put a positive fiscal case forward as an alternative to your detractors. As yet, you have failed to do so and consequently attract a degree of suspicion and derision. So to clarify, the legitimacy of your position is basically undermined by your own failings and lack of a clear alternative.

In regard to Brits, well this is where your argument desends into chaos. Firstly, a huge number of UK expats were forced and are being forced to leave Cayman due to the ineffective and counter productive policy of roll over. They had invested time, emotion and treasure into this island for little thanks or acknowledgement, however your loss is another countries gain and Cayman is now suffering the consequences within their economy. The Brits don't send money home and they paid ALL of the taxes expected of them, from house purchasing to import duty. Forging a lifestyle and expenditure that has now left the island to the detriment of local business.

You should also not be fooled by commentators who wish to diminish the UK's standing in the world or it's economic forecasts. We all know that ALL major players are suffering as a result of the down turn and banking crisis. It is true that the UK, like most other country's around the world, made serious mistakes in the regulation of credit and banking. However, there is no alternative to austerity, as the Euro zone are now finding to their cost. Cayman doesn't have a competant fiscal plan of its own and it doesn't have any examples on which to call for alternative advice. You can't go to the US because they are so deeply indepted to China, the Euro Zone is virtually bankrupt and because of archaic self interest and possibly a lick of racism, you don't want Chinise assistance anyway, (basically the only country that has got money). So like it or not, you are going to have to follow the UK's advice unless by some miracle you can come up with a plan that no one else has thought of. And yes, I do think your 'existence is based upon the crumbling infrastructure of a crumbling nation', otherwise why do you think are you necessary?

In regard to the Brit commentators that you authoritatively refer to in your counter. Well, don't be so presumptuous to assume that they speak for either the UK or any of its people. Opinion polls are a very inaccurate way of deciding an argument from either side. Normally a small number, perhaps 1000 or 1500 people are questioned and that my friend is definately not representitive of a population of 60 million. With reference to other commentators, they obviously post comments on those forums for the same reason you and I do, to stimulate debate and offer their views to the wider public. Of course, that doesn't make them right or accurate, please don't diminish your argument further by quoting other peoples politically motivated and biased musings that are unrepresentative and possibly inaccurate.

Out of interest, the real world Brits, who are they in your mind and how many have you ever met, have you ever been to the UK or studied economics, how long did you stay?

Immigration or emmigration is not something that the Cayman Islands has managed to get a handle on at any level. When times are difficult in any country, people make decisons to seek a better life and perhaps emigrate to another country for the good of their future or family. Caymanians have sought employment overseas for decades, both on land and at sea. Did this mean that Caymanians hated their country or would never return, NO, of course it doesn't and to think so diminishes the argument further. Yes, being a Brit, I have left my home for work and to settle new roots, however I remain loyal to my country of birth through bad times and good. There are many reasons why Brits feel disenfranchised at the present time, immigration, employment, law and order, the economy. Ring any bells? The UK isn't perfect, that place doesn't exist, however it is one of the greatest country's in the world and can call upon a long and diverse history to guide its future. 

So, Cayman waits in awe for your next bout of anti UK sentiment and self indulgent musings based upon other peoples political bias. What's it going to be next, the UK wants to paint all the Cayman parrots red, white and blue to celebrate the Queens jubillee?

 Now consider yourself DONE.

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OK so you don't like the

OK so you don't like the UKand they are all messed up.  What does this have to do with the original topic?  Are you really saying that the Caymans are so messed up because of the UK being messed up?  Really?  You sound a lot like Bush.

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The thing about the comments

The thing about the comments constantly being made against the UK is that in my opinon,  this Whodatis is trying to incite negativity.....  

I guess some people may simply seek attention but do they consider these consistent words may be used to incite sedition (his constant irrelevance and long drawn out historical, negative info etc could be used as start of an argument for that point). These negative comments may also make others believe Caymanians (the few remaining without all that anti-colonial hatred/poison) think the way he/she does? 

Since we're in the Caribbean, why doesn't he/she provide us with, hmmm current history around 60-70 years perhaps, of neighbouring countries (Honduras, Belize, Jamaica, TCI etc) and their great leaders, policies, relationship with the UK and any influences on Cayman's current state of affairs???

 

Geesh, in my opinion these points seem to be just pre-typed and posted to get a 'certain' reaction....commentators should exercise their right to simply ignore such posts, period! SMH

 

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Anon 08;20 I think what

Anon 08;20

I think what Whodatis is trying to tell you that the UK has no rights to stiffle it's colonys ( the Cayman Islands) when they themselves  can not walk the walk.... their economy has failed.

He went on to say, there is no single reason we ought to depend on the UK pointers of how to Govern a nation or run a successful economy.

He mentioned the UK is now chasing down the 38 Billion pounds of wasted and fraudulent acquired public funds, of the past year alone...That's  alot of money to waste  in one year!

Let me tell you all people one thing.. That first comment with Woody Jenkins-Central City News - Baton Rouge. That will give you all an idea of what the world has come to.

America, the great super power  is now inviting China to invest in their infrastructures, you know why? they are broke. 14 trillion dollars in debt.

Whodatis is trying to tell you the same about the UK, they are broke and in debt up to their ears.

Cayman, if we do not invite private intities, like the Chinese with cash flow, to boost our economy,  we are going to be left behind. The UK is smarter than that, they have now invited the Chinese to invest. They did it without  following the International procurement procedures.

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The snobbery. These people

The snobbery. These people you talk of, if you would so kindly remember, may speak considering they each have centuries of experience with having to etch out a life, of war, of plague, of starvation. An exaggeration? Not at all, because history shapes what a country and people become-consider that. While it may not be the prettiest of sights in these times, we must acknowledge that the 'western powers' are still in a position where they can crush us any way they want. They know what it is like to prosper and to lose better than any of us do in Cayman. We who were able to lead such simple, carefree lives and are now able to look back on our ancestors hardwork and relative peace, the only real threat the seas around them. A very different experience than those who now have supreme economic and political power in this world. Now you are going to sit there and bitch about their warning to us to invest wisely simply because of their past mistakes? Have they advised government to do commit those same mistakes? Any person with a lick of sense knows what the govenor has said is logical. I would rather take the experienced words of someone who suffered rather than that of a person who has lived our comfortable Caymanian way of life and claims to clarify the reality without any context as to why they are where they are.

As a person who has travelled to many countries and lived there fro a young age, I have experienced the harsh realities of these places. It breaks my heart every time I see a crowd of beggars huddling on a street corner waiting for a bit of food here in England when I see where the money that could be spent on their welfare actually goes. However, you speak as though we are some how better than these people. We have not even had half a century to enjoy the wealth we have earned, yet have and ARE watching it being squandered daily. Which is what the govenor was simply trying to address.

Also, trust me, the Chinese have not been able to become so wealthy, nor have they been able to pick up after every fall, for nothing. We are all fair game and we have no one to blame if they take advantage of our stupidity.

 

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I strongly object to the

I strongly object to the first sentence of your post.

Unfortunately, it is clear evidence that everything thereafter was doomed to be based on a gross misunderstanding.

The essence of my post was clearly lost on some people.

Actually, if you are as intelligent as your post suggests, and if you possess the world view that you claim, then you do actually grasp the overall gist of my post but have decided to play games.

In any event, I'm leaving this one alone.

(Hints: Irony. Sarcasm. Tongue-in-cheek. Karma.)

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As is.

As is.

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Who is causing the potential

Who is causing the potential of causing irreparable economic harm to our beloved island-nation?  The individual(s) whose actions got us into this mess in the first place, or the people trying to warn us to turn away from the path of folly that our leaders have us on?   HHMMM?  Blame the source, not the messenger trying to warn us.  No wonder we in such a mess !!!  People like you busy trying to pick fault instead of applying everyday commonsense !!!

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Unlike Cayman, the UK is the

Unlike Cayman, the UK is the worlds largest financial institution, so really can call upon all of its history and experience when needed. To naively state that the UK is in a mess is to forget that so is the rest of the world, including China at the moment. It is your own fault that Cayman is in a mess, not the UK, you have repeatedly ignored the voice of experience and good governance and allowed your own politicians to sell you down the river. There you are, context and balance.

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"Let us educate ourselves to

"Let us educate ourselves to the reality of the world today rather than spew out irrelevant and outdated rhetorical as it pops into our heads." You said it buddy. Your hatred of the UK blinds you to your own hypocrisy .
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All of the reasons given by

All of the reasons given by His Excellency and the FCO are spot on and make complete business sense. I also agree that just because someone is Chinese is no reason to judge against them.

However, if they represent the Communist Chinese Government, which oppresses the general Chinese population via the Red Army, forcing their own people to work like slaves while they themselves are living like kings off of the profits generated on the backs of their oppressed brethren, then there is a problem!

 

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Sounds like Cayman, (see

Sounds like Cayman, (see expats for slaves).

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I recall there was never a

I recall there was never a cruise berthing issue until certain of the cruise line companies became very concerned about public liability and claims of slipping and tripping by passengers, or falling off an escorting boat during the time of transporting them from cruise ship to the George Town dock. There was the fear (and still is today) of legal packages detailing serious injuries and huge financial compensations against the cruise lines. All like the Florida Caribbean Cruise Association (FCCA) cautioned the C.I. government that if a proper cruise berthing facility wasn’t built in accordance to safety standards, they would discontinue bringing the cruise vessels here. Now this being the case, one would have thought that way before PPM’s tenure, a cruise berthing facility would have been in the process of construction. But not so… our government leaders (as well as UK) decide to prolong this process whilst many businesses on the island suffer!  The FCCA and other cruise liners may just run out of patience and set sail elsewhere. Cayman, we need to get at our leaders!

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You really don't get it do

You really don't get it do you? You didn't go through the lawful tendering channels, that's why the UK are objecting, nothing to do with holding you back, just good practice. Something that you need to learn in the wider world.

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If they claim to have power

If they claim to have power and have this financial centre at heart, shouldn't they use their power?  Now 2012 and the clock is ticking...

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Why? As you keep telling us,

Why? As you keep telling us, 'THIS IS YOUR ISLAND', its also your mess, you find a way out.

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Remember, the PPM had a dock

Remember, the PPM had a dock plan ready to go and the UDP killed it as soon as they got power.

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