Ryan wants crown land
Posted on Mon, 09/12/2011 - 19:13 in Politics
(CNS): Orion development has offered to pay government $10 million immediately for the 300 acres of crown land occupied by the Ritz Carlton and in the Safe Haven area currently on lease to the developer. The premier revealed he is considering the offer by Michael Ryan, in which he has also promised a 2% increase on the current stamp duty rate on all land deals there in perpetuity. Confirming considerable recent speculation about the proposal to give up the Safe Haven land, which belongs to the people, McKeeva Bush indicated that not everyone in government supported the plan and asked the opposition what its position was on the issue. (Photo by Dennie Warren Jr)
“The developer has made a proposal to the government in regards to the parcels of land that comprise the Ritz-Carlton and the previous Safe Haven lands,” he said. “The lease agreements on these properties have already been extended to 99 years. The proposal from the developer is that these leases will be converted to freehold for an upfront payment of $10 million dollars, with an increase in stamp duty of 2% on all transactions in perpetuity.
“This would increase the rate of stamp duty from the current 7.5% up to 9.5% on each transaction. Total revenue is estimated to exceed $600 million dollars over the years,” Bush told the Legislative Assembly on Monday afternoon.
He said that it was the opposition that had offered numerous concessions and benefits, which he accused them of hiding from the public, but had not granted a freehold to the Ritz Carlton developer for the Dragon Bay development, an issue which Bush now said was preventing the project from going ahead.
The news of the proposal to give the publicly owned land away comes on the heels of the ForCayman Alliance with Dart, which also involves swapping two other pieces of crown land in return for more development. The prospect of selling the crown land at Safe Haven is likely to cause further opposition in the community and Bush noted that even government itself was not united on the subject, though he did not say which members of Cabinet was split over the deal.
“While there are some in the government who will support this development, there are others who will not,” Bush said. “Government has facilitated the developer, and I myself am proud of the Ritz Carlton development, but the question is whether to sell those two properties out rightly to the developer, and do we have support for such a move? That is the question that the government is confronted with.”
He said the opposition has criticized government for not getting things done and they had been hypocritical about this project as they had never conducted any studies or impact assessments and negotiated the deal with no public input and had never revealed its contents.
Now they had the chance not to “beat around the bush” but to say whether or not they support what he said was the crucial need to convert the lease to freehold.
“I ask each of them: Do you support the sale of these two properties to the developer? The government needs a clear and unambiguous answer to this matter from the opposition, and all members of this House.”
Bush said government would never get the land back as it was already committed for 99 years and under the strata title law, if government wanted to re-possess the land at the end of the lease, they could still be obliged to purchase each strata title from the owner of each unit and land from each land owner.
“We have been informed by the developer that the project is ready to start, and can begin employing Caymanians right away. Alternately, the project can stall, we can lose the opportunity for jobs and investment, we can even see the golf course close,” Bush said as he asked the opposition members for a response.
A clear “No” resounded from the opposition benches in response and the opposition leader Alden McLaughlin made it clear that it was a policy position of the PPM not to sell crown land for these types of developments.
CNS has also asked government what the current situation is on the remaining $6 million outstanding duty that the developer owed to government from concessions given on the Ritz Cartlon and is awaiting a response.
See the premier's statement rgarding the Ritz proposal and details of the previous proposed deal for Dragon Bay made with the PPM below.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Statement made in the Legislative Assembly-PPM-Ritz Carlton (2)(1).doc | 108.5 KB |
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Ryan, what is land at Crystal
Ryan, what is land at Crystal Harbour going for per lot or acre? Shouldn't the sale price be more in line with that?
What does Ryan plan to do
What does Ryan plan to do with the 2 mangrove islands he wants to lease?
Does anyone have more information on this?
Certainly he can't be proposing the develop the 2 mangrove islands????!!!!!
Why on earth would he need to 'lease them'? They clearly should be left alone and not touched!
Don't you think you've run rough shod over our laws (e.g. removing the mangrove buffer for Dragon Bay) and mangroves already Ryan?? Leave the 2 little mangrove islands alone please.
NO NO NO - Mr. Premier and
NO NO NO - Mr. Premier and Mr. Ryan!
Mr. Ryan - How dare you insult the people of the Cayman Islands with your measly offer? Have you paid all the duty you owe us yet?
You are not entitled to anything else from this country. You have gotten far more than you deserve..including status in the lottery!
Do not try to jump on the Dart bandwagon. 2 different things here! This is not a "free for all".
You negotiated what you have - stick to the terms.
NO NO NO!
Mr. Premier - stop being so bloody short sighted and greedy! Stop selling US out!
Please tell me this purchase
Please tell me this purchase doesn't include the mangrove islands adjacent to this property...
He has already destroyed most of the mangroves on the land side. Don't think he won't remove those islands if he can.
Regrettably, an ill-informed,
Regrettably, an ill-informed, mis-informed public is making comments that the government is thinking of giving land away for nothing. The PPM will love that.
Michael Ryan already owns the leasehold. A 99 year lease has almost 100% the market value of freehold land. Development of the land, and income for the government is more likely when buyers are offered freehold rather than leashold.
The $10m would be a fair price to convert the legal ownership from leashold to freehold.
Caymanians never let facts
Caymanians never let facts get in the way of patriotism. Facts are just another type of harassment.
A fact that you can't understand is " political, and nasty and dirty as can be” In other words your not playing fair. Watch the thumbs down on your comment for acknowledgment.
Regrettably, Mr Ryan does not
Regrettably, Mr Ryan does not pay his bills. I suggest giving him the opportunity to default on his 99 or 75 year lease. That's assuming he is not already in default and it's just a matter of no one in government giving a shit or being able to read the lease..
Ryan never paid for the
Ryan never paid for the extension of the lease on the Safe Haven property agreed to under the 2009 Main Agreement between FUJIGMO Ltd and The Cayman Islands Government.. So he doesn't have a 99 year lease. More like 75 years. In fact, Ryan has not executed on even one of the terms he agreed to.
Only 152 people are needed to
Only 152 people are needed to get 25 signatures each to start the Peoples' Referendum Process to remove this mad man! (152 x 25 = 3,800, and of the current 15,187 registered voters in Cayman, only 25% are required to start the referendum, 15,187 x 0.25 = 3,797). Our Constitution states that when that many signatures are collected, Cabinet MUST obey the PEOPLE, NOT the UDP members! THE TRUE POWER LIES WITH YOU!!!
He will soon be gone! Will you be one of the 152 to stop this train wreck from happening to Cayman? LET'S GET BUSY GATHERING SIGNATURES BEFORE WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISLAND LEFT! THIS HAS GOT TO STOP!
COME ON...THIS IS THE TIME TO WAKE UP-WE CAN DO THIS!!!
Our government need the $6
Our government need the $6 million due by Mr. Ryan and jobs at the Ritz-Carlton so that our young people don't have to do this when the economy gets worst:
http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/13/7730301-lawyer-turns-topless-dancer-to-pay-the-bills?GT1=43001
Saying that we could do with
Saying that we could do with a good strip joint or two.
Something bigger is being
Something bigger is being overlooked. If this deal goes through, Ryan can sell the land to Dart or anyone he likes and at quite a profit to be sure. He could easily sell to a foreign entitly. The more of Cayman that is owned by foreigners, the more control we lose over our own existence.
$10M for 300 ACRES WHAT A
$10M for 300 ACRES WHAT A DEAL
This must be a joke! - The whole country will want to buy into this deal at $33,333 per acre for total clear freehold rights of crown land plus the existing value of the leasehold land at current values. Mr Ryan surely cannot be serious and think the Cayman people will fall for this deal.
Let's be practical and upfront fair to the country and the Caymanian people. The land should be valued now as leasehold land at current values and revalued at current values as freehold property, and the differrence of these two values should righfully go to the country and its people. As it stands Mr. Ryan has purchased the leasehold safehaven propert from the Matalons with the full knowledge that it is leasehold land and no-one will buy it and build on it for that reason. The Matalons could not sell the development and Mr. Ryan cannot develop it and sell it for this exact same reason. He knew this going into the purchase and should now do the right and ethical thing by allowing the country to realize the added value in excahnge for him to be able to develop and sell it as freehold property.
Call in Lands & Survey + two chartered property valuers and average the two valuations and then proceed to sell Mr. Ryan the true value of the difference in values, however Mr. Ryan cannot afford to pay Government what he owes them in duty concessions let alone purchase freehold rights to the property at the true and correct value.
We do not want another Turks and Caicos crown land sell out by politicians
WE ARE ASKING FOR A FAIR DEAL ONLY, FOR CAYMAN
$300 million should be more
$300 million should be more like it!
if government is selling land
if government is selling land on the west bay strip at 30 grand per acre then as a born Caymanian i think i should be afforded the opportunity to buy some of that land especially since i already have a stake in it. These people have lost their minds they aren't greedy anymore they are just stupid.
Caymanian's this deal smells
Caymanian's this deal smells like the Turk's & Caicos deals that their Premier was making until UK Moved him out and exposed him.
The writing is on the wall, Please open your eyes not everything that sounds good is good.
I agree if Michael Ryan has that kind of money! Demand that he pay what he owes the caymanian people first.
?????? >>> !!!!!!! In that
?????? >>> !!!!!!!
In that area if you find a quarter (0.25) of an acre lot,
for under $300,000.00 dollars you will be lucky.
this guy is really selling out,
remember he said he think it's a good deal. so much for thinking of the future our future.
but wait this thaught process is nothing new, you helm me i helk you ***** Cayman
is'nt that what they did in TCI
Mr Ryan On behalf of all
Mr Ryan
On behalf of all Caymanians,
Not today Bobo!!!
Pay no attention to the man
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..
Selling it is ok but you must
Selling it is ok but you must pay the price, and the price should be 50 million not 10. then I will say ok. Other wise I am sorry Mac, cannot agree on the offer it is too cheap.
Whow $50 million is still too
Whow $50 million is still too cheap how many school can we build with that money and just how many of our young people can we train locally and overseas with that money. Fifty million is just a drop in the bucket of what Cayman's financial needs are at the moment.
This madness will NOT stop
This madness will NOT stop until the PEOPLE start a referendum to remove McKeeva from office! Only 3,797 voters are needed to start the referendum.
According to Section 69-70 of the Constitution, it states that on questions of national importance and whereby the United Kingdom does not object to a local referendum taking place on the issue, "To encourage public participation in governance and politics, the electorate is able to trigger a referendum by presenting to Cabinet a petition signed by 25% of the voting public."
So, of the 15,187 voters, the Cayman Islands would only need 3,797 voters to remove McKeeva from office.
Alden, I believe that your No Confidence Motion was NOT in vain, because in a true democratic country, your motion established dialogue amongst the people when you were asking questions of national importance. Unfortunately, your motion also showed the world that the UDP is disconnected from the 15,187 voters and the TRUE POWER has now rightfully fallen back to where it always was: with the public participating in governance and politics...it seems like the UDP didn't think about that, Alden!
So, Cayman, WHAT SAY YOU???
Sometimes I really have to
Sometimes I really have to wonder if the Premier is really a fool or he’s just playing the fool.
If my calculations are correct Mr. Premier expects over CI$ 600mm over the years in revenue for giving this land up for CI$10mm, let’s use the figures provided so far and adjust against Mr. Ryan 9.5% proposal on duty to find the true hidden figures.
This would mean Mr. Ryan is expecting at least CI$6,315,789,500 (yes billions) in economic activities over the years this land is developed.
In order for Cayman to realize the CI$600mm in revenue our financial guru from WB is floating around, over CI$ 6,315,789,500 in economic activity would have to be generated, this is even bigger than the Shetty Hospital,
Surely our Leader can't be this gullible.
See calculations below:
CI$ 6,315,789,500 x 9.5% = CI$ 600,000,000
Mr. Ryan buys at CI$ 10mm /300 acres = CI$ 33,333.33 per acre
Mr. Ryan’s proposed plan using land CI$ 6,315,789,500 /300 = CI$ 21,052,631.67 per acre (develope at 63,000% markup)
Mr. Ryan & Mr. Premier need to be nominated for the Pulitzer in economics next year if this works out.
Nothing less than 60 Million.
Nothing less than 60 Million. 10 Million is at a rate of 33,000 per acre. Were the hell can you find property for that price in the Cayman Islands? If the government want to make a deal it should be one that is clearly one that benefits the people. It is understandable that it was a bad deal in the first place with the original lease agreement but the developers seem to be taking advantage of the fact that the government is cash strapped, and the economy is slumping. If the government make decisions based on these factors it is likely that it will be wrong. Everything taste good when you hungry.
The government must be applauded for the fact that they have involved the opposition. However, one of the advantage of democracy and in particular the party political system is the different voices, the opposing sides, the different angles and perspectives that are brought out, with the hope that the best possible decisons are made. It is good to know that the ruling majority is listening to the opposition. An advice also is to listen to the will of the people for while the legislative power rests with government, the electoral power rest with the people and we choose the leaders whether by election or otherwise. In the past the people have used this ultimate power sparingly, but if the government listen closely to the cry of the people as their dreams are dashed with reposessions, business closures and the difficulties that have been presented because of a failure of the government to have foresight. A revolution is coming.
Maybe someone should ask Ryan
Maybe someone should ask Ryan for an independently audited Statement of Net Worth, so that we can see what he owes to other Third Parties, and whether he is up to date with the repayment of Capital and/or Interest on what he had to borrow to develop the Ritz Carlton project as a whole.
Hey Ryan, pay up the
Hey Ryan, pay up the $6Million dollars you owe. If you have $10Million immediately available, that should not be a problem. McKeeva Bush, stop selling your soul for money. You will have to answer one day to the same Lord that you claim to pray to, if not to the people of this country.
Orion Development bought
Orion Development bought Safehaven fully aware that it was leased land and had planned to developed it under those guidelines. Ryan and the Creightons bought it for 80m or close to it and were rubbing their little hands in glee know how much money they could make with the developed leased land now to change it to freehold for 10m would double their value immediately. Likely they can't get financing for Dragon Bay anyway as market conditions worldwide has stopped large developments due to the shrinking real estate market. This sale would enable them to take some land to join it with the Ritz course to make it 18 holes and Creighton parcels the rest off and makes a bundle of fees and the sale of the lots. Let them default on the loan and let the bank take it over and maybe Dart will buy the course at a fraction of the cost and include it into his hotel plan for the old Courtyard and then we will see a true 5 star resort. Ryan is trying to pull a fast one by emploring the need for work ploy and surely he will start backstepping as soon a he gets the concession.
Very well put.
Very well put.
It would be nice to know how
It would be nice to know how much Mr. Ryan is paying for the 99 year lease, to really see if it's worth it to consider his offer? Can we get an FOI request on that?
Micheal Ryan paid appx.
Micheal Ryan paid appx. $600,000 for the leased land for the 99 years. It was published in the Compass back in 2001 or 2002.
Surely you are joking! Would
Surely you are joking! Would this have been under McKeeva's first term as LOGB?
One commenter pointed out the
One commenter pointed out the conflict involved with the Premier having a Condo at the Ritz and his involvment with making deals with Mr. Ryan. This goes far deeper than conflict. We the people need to demand to know the details of how McKeeva came to own this condo. Was it a gift? If it was a purchase then we need to see the financial details to establish legitimacy.
When developers give politicians gifts in return for future favourable consideration then good governance is gone and corruption becomes the norm. Corrupt political practices are always detrimental to the public good. Such practices are illegal and need to be prosecuted.
The people of Cayman are ready and willing to proceed with a class action suit to prosecute such violators. We need a lawyer who is able and willing to bring proper charges aginst the violators of public trust. An army of citizens will sign up to be a part of such action. What are you waiting for?
Hey Mike R., Following your
Hey Mike R.,
Following your line of thinking, I'll buy a Ritz condo for $5. Heck, I'll even offer CI$5 not US$5. And, Mike, I'll even pay the entire amount up front. Plus you can be entitled to the future duties if I sell it in the future. Which I might not.
XXXX
- Caymanian
The Native Americans sold
The Native Americans sold Manhattan to the Dutch for $24 worth of beads. Let's not allow
history to repeat itself.
------------------------------------
Big Mac:
You big cheese... I mean big chief.
You take shiny beads as trade for ALL your land.
It be good deal. Beads much better. You take.
Good deal. I promise. *wink wink*
-M
How presumptuous of Micheal
How presumptuous of Micheal Ryan.
He owes the Cayman Islands Govt. millions in outstanding duty, can't pay and no one is forcing him to pay it, but whola he has $10million to make an offer to buy our most valuable asset!
NO, is the response, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!
Pay your debt to the Cayman Islands People Mr. Ryan. We are not interested in your offer.
This land is worth 100s of
This land is worth 100s of millions ask any Realestate Agent. Dart just paid 6 million for the outstanding lease on the land opposite public beach which is Crown Land. Ryans offer is an insult and a joke.
Thought this guy was broke??
Thought this guy was broke?? Won't be long before he bails out of Cayman and sells his assets to Dart.
I'm not sure if everyone
I'm not sure if everyone really understands this gov't leasehold zone. The government leasehold area starts south of Ritz and extends north to the Gov's house and east to the N Sound. If Gov't were to concede to Orion, then it would be fair for them to extend equivalent terms to any other interests residing on the same gov't leasehold parcel, ie Villas of the Galleon, The Westin, Falls Plaza, Sunshine Suites, Regatta, Gov Mall, Waterways, Lime Tree Bay, Turnbury, and the handful of private resident homes on the adjoining canal. They are all just renting the land they are sitting on and must make annual lease payments to Gov't. The development of this area has lagged other areas on Seven Mile Corridor because of the unusual leasehold arrangement - particularly troublesome for North American investors that are unfamiliar with European leasehold arrangements that are common in high density metro areas like London, Paris, et al. North Americans tend to want to own their property freehold.
I would not suggest to anyone
I would not suggest to anyone how you should feel about selling the freehold interest of land to someone that already owns the leasehold interest. But to those who are arguing that the $10 million is not enough value for the amount of land; you are missing the HUGE point that the developer already owns and paid many millions for the leasehold interest, paid more millions to extend the lease for a new 99 year term, and in 20 years or so will do the same again (without all this objection, or even knowledge of the fact, for that matter). So since he already owns the land for the next 99 years, in theory, he should only pay the value fo the difference between a 99 year lease and the freehold interest (which, based on case history, isn't much). Government will never have control over this land anyway, at least not in our lifetimes or that of our children.
Thing is,he didn't pay many
Thing is,he didn't pay many millions. He paid nearly no millions and promised to pay a bit more if and when. And we all know he hasn't paid his duty comcessions.
When our island is completely
When our island is completely sold out....we can NEVER buy it back......Cayman will not own any of the land called Cayman...and thats progress????? NOT.
When our island is completely
When our island is completely sold out....we can NEVER buy it back......Cayman will not own any of the land called Cayman...and thats progress????? NOT.
Looking for a piece of land
Looking for a piece of land now as a young Caymanian a house lot starts off around $40,000 in North Side and only increases in value the closer you get to George Town....and you telling me that McBush is considering selling this man this land for $33,333.33 an acre. If it is Crown Land think about the future of Caymanians where will they live in 15 years? If he was paying face vale or at least close to what it is valued that would not be such a shocker. What is a house lot go for on SMB or West Bay Road! A lot more! It is time for McKeeva to stop playing games and GET OUT OF GOVERNMENT!!!! XXXX
A house lot usually is
A house lot usually is already filled, roads put in and paved as well as power lines, water lines etc. this is a good amount of the cost. You and those like you that would like to discredit anyone should first try and get the facts straight and right. Otherwise those who actually know about these things (like a person who owns land, develops land into house lotsetc.) will find you lacking in the knowledge you need to talk about it. I'm not saying your right or wrong but undeveloped land is not the same as a house lot. And yes Mckeeva needs to go because he is also lacking very much in the knowledge he needs to do the job.
Just a thought but most house lots were undeveloped land until a developer XXXX spent the money on it to put in roads, power, water. etc. AND go through all the many loops needed for permits including the fees necessary to get all this through government like the one mentioned in the letter from Bush which is still being investigated and most likely will be until it is forgotten and he has retired in some south American country.
Mike Ryan... my hero! LOL
Mike Ryan... my hero! LOL
Economies of scale. Larger
Economies of scale. Larger pieces of land are always worth less per square foot. This has been consistent across Cayman for a long time.
I want a couple of acres at
I want a couple of acres at that price too!!
“Government has facilitated
“Government has facilitated the developer, and I myself am proud of the Ritz Carlton development,.........'
Wonder why?
“We have been informed by the developer that the project is ready to start, and can begin employing Caymanians right away. Alternately, the project can stall, we can lose the opportunity for jobs and investment, we can even see the golf course close,” Bush said as he asked the opposition members for a response.
This says it all really. How is the project ready to start straight away? Employing Caymanians right away - good ploy! So the opposition will be in the wrong for stopping Caymanian employment if they say no to this development. Transparency at last!::))
It seems from the time he
It seems from the time he motioned a special force for these islands to fight crime and all opposition members were unified on it, McKeeva is involving them more into other government business like this one. He is asking the opposition on what their position is on the issue. That is a good sign for these islands, and I hope McKeeva keeps on including them, because this shows that although we are divided on some things - there are many things we need to be unified on for the best interest of Cayman. Such like -
* CRIME
* ECONOMY
* PROPOSED HUGE DEALS WITH DEVELOPERS
* ISSUES AROUND OUR SELF-DETERMINATION
Don't be naive . McKeeva is
Don't be naive . McKeeva is covering his tracks.
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