Cruise lines could build port
Posted on Thu, 01/31/2013 - 19:24 in Local News
(CNS): Although committed to a competitive tender for the George Town cruise berthing facilities, government believes it may still be possible for the cruise lines to do the project. Cline Glidden, the new tourism minister, said that after recent discussions with the cruise lines in Florida, government has since received a specific proposal from a cruise line. Admitting that this presented challenges for traditional procurement, he said government was looking at how the cruise lines could be involved in the project. He also revealed that his ministry had been unable to identify any intellectual property which CIG owns as a result of the $2.5 million payoff to GLF.
Speaking at Thursday’s government press briefing, Glidden stated that one cruise line had already submitted a preliminary proposal to government and others were interested. Although still too premature to go into details, the minister said that ownership of the facility would remain in the Port Authority’s hands but the line involved was requesting priority use of the pier it would build, for a given period, which the minister said demonstrated a real commitment to the islands from this important cruise partners.
However, the idea of the cruise lines being involved in a bid to do the port presented challenges when it came to traditional procurement. The minister said it was a good challenge to be faced with though, and the government had the assistance of not only the UK’s economic advisor but a procurement expert as well, who would be advising government as it moved forward with the cruise port bid.
Glidden remained optimist that the government would be able to do something with the cruise lines and still follow good practice. The cruise lines would, he said, create options and it was a way in that would not directly use public money. The cruise lines would always have a distinct advantage over third party investors in a competitive bid, since the developers would need to seek the commitment of the cruise lines while they already had their own passenger commitment, it would present difficulties for a traditional RFP and competitive tender.
But Glidden pointed to the provisions in the tendering process for single source bids where value for money could be demonstrated. He said, however, that the cruise line interest created a new scenario that was more akin to the concept of a licensed development as they were merely offering to build a pier in order to dock their ships in our port.
The minister said that whatever happened CIG was committed to following best practice and they now needed to talk with the UK and the advisors about how government could entertain this type of proposal as a way to get at least one pier underway. Despite the challenges it presented, Glidden said he welcomed them as it showed how committed and interested in Cayman the cruise lines remained.
Deputy Premier Rolston Anglin added that traditional procurement might be tricky, given these types of proposals from the cruise lines, which presented a new scenario. But he said the Cabinet intended to put a case forward to the UK to consider this idea differently from traditional tendering as there were significant advantages to the public purse which may be attractive to the FCO.
Meanwhile, it was revealed that, so far, the tourism ministry staff have been unable to find any of the intellectual property rights that the former premier had claimed Cayman got with the pay-off to GLF. Glidden said there appeared to be no ownership rights with CIG.
The minister said it appeared no one had paid the government for any intellectual property and his chief officer, Stran Bodden, was still looking for what Cayman actually got in the pay off. Glidden said they had been hopeful that during the various negotiations the government would have acquired ownership of or have access to some useful information but so far, he said, they had not identified anything for the payment to GLF.
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"He also revealed that his
"He also revealed that his ministry had been unable to identify any intellectual property which CIG owns as a result of the $2.5 million payoff to GLF"
Well, just as Rolston where it is! He was the last McKeeva puppet who came out to defend this deal in the press. Where is the intellectual property from GLF?
Has anyone considered that we
Has anyone considered that we are one of the few ports without massive debt? Do you know what that really means? Let me tell you what it means. NO ONE HAS SIGNIFICANT LEVERAGE OVER US!
If we were in huge debt, we could easily be manipulated by all and sunder, because even the slightest threat to reduce a call or two would hurt our ability to pay our debts. At this moment, the little we owe is miniscule.
Have you seen how vociferous the FCCA and Carnival came out snarling and threatening the tender company for a 75 cent per person increase in their fares? Well let me ask one simple question. Do you think that the present fees paid in head tax, port tax, and tendering fees is going to pay the loan, insurance, maintenance and operation of a $200 million facility? And what happens if a more lucrative market opens up for the cruise lines? Do you think they are going to stay here, or they will move on to cash in on the spoils of that market? The reason they are in the Caribbean is because we are close to the larget cruise market, our weather allows year round sailing and they are able to offer the cruises at attractive rates. If we acquire a massive debt that requires huge amounts of cash to service, we will price ourselves out of the market and that will be the end of our cruise market. Just look at the Turtle Farm. A nicer facility brought higher admission prices. Was it that attractive that people were willing to pay the higher premium? Absolutely no. Weren't the cruise lines pushing for that facility to be improved too? Was it the right thing to do? I don't have to answer that one now, do I?
My fellow Caymanians, what we have might not be the best, but we must be doing something right to remain in the top five cruise destinations and we are not in a heap of debt. I say that we'd better be careful what kind of debt we get into. I don't necessarily believe we should go and dive headlong into debt because the cruise lines say we need a dock to keep them coming, because if they stop, we haven't a whole heap to lose in our present state, but if we have a $200 million debt they will bend us back over till we can't bend anymore and if they even as much as reduce their calls, we will be in a hell of a mess. Assess carefully. Think long and hard. Don't do another Turtle Farm.
We still need proof that the
We still need proof that the moving sands of 7 mile beach will not slide into the 40ft.Grand Canyon excavation for the ships...No Beach means disaster....anyone want to risk that..?
We don't need a port,cruise tourists still come and will continue come ,and if fewer choose to come, that will improve life for all of us....except foreign Taxi drivers I guess.
It is coming up to election
It is coming up to election time and politicians have to find something to smooth the waters.
Once the election is over this topic will die a natural death and a new one will take its place for the next four years.
Any cruise port built in these islands will be paid for by the Caymanian people and never let anyone fool you in to beleiving that anyone will finance such a project without strings attached for a long time.
Whoever pays for it will
Whoever pays for it will control it. Why is this so hard to understand? If you want Cayman government ot control it, figure out how to pay for it.
I think the Atlantic Star
I think the Atlantic Star deal was still the best option that Cayman has had on the table and the port would already be complete if it would have been given the go ahead.
Isn't it strange how this
Isn't it strange how this huge American corporation ( Carnival) seems to be welcomed when two years ago another huge American corporation ( Dart) was not... What's the difference here folks?? Somebody else will control the port.
It is good to see that you
It is good to see that you truthfully recognize Ken Dart for what he is a “huge American corporation ( Dart)” parading around as a wolf in his Mac issued Caymanian Status cloak!
The difference between Dart and the cruise lines is that the cruise lines are interested only in cruise businesses.
Dart on the other hand wants to make the Cayman Islands his “private” Island with him as the total controller, business, port, culture, nature, food, liquor, everything!
He controls most of the politicians, but not all of the people!
Now you know the "difference"!
Ummm, does Carnival want a 99
Ummm, does Carnival want a 99 year lease with control of all upland development? Is it taking over major sectors of business in Cayman (duty free, liquor distributors etc.). Please don't be so superficial.
You must be pretty dense not
You must be pretty dense not to see the difference. How many Cayman businesses has Carnival taken control of?
Whoever puts up the money
Whoever puts up the money will control the dock. There is no free lunch (in the real, non-CIG world.)
Id Carnival an American
Id Carnival an American cruise line? It's HQ is in the UK. Getting a connection here are we?
Right....and they will
Right....and they will monopolise all the tours and trips based from that cruise port, cheapen the industry left right and centre (and the island). Come on Cayman....do you own thing intelligently....get it together....you have so many brains on this island to find the CORRECT answer
I understand that the cruise
I understand that the cruise lines are complaining because the tenders will increase the offloading passenger fee by 75 cents phased over a specific period.
So at this time they are balking at a .25 cents per passenger increase. Can you imagine how they will scream if we build a new port and increase the passenger fees?
In reality the cruise lines are making 99.% of the income from its passengers, and most of them have duty free stores on board so as to compete with local duty free stores in the islands.
I suggest that the cruise lines should pay for building the port to government specifications, and just add the cost to their passenger tickets over a period of years. Our government passenger fees should remain the same as they are now, and the cruise lines will save the money they are now paying for tender fees, and can remove that from the cost of their passenger tickets...
when dart walked away.... you
when dart walked away.... you know it was doomed....
Dart "walked away" because
Dart "walked away" because government weren't prepared to give away this important piece of infrastructure and revenue for 99 years. No one should believe that is reasonable. Not for a company that was planning on building on the monopoly they are already trying to create in GT.
So what? We gave Shetty a 100
So what? We gave Shetty a 100 year deal - what's the difference?
See: Cppi cayman - Guide to Shetty MOU
With McKeeva out of the way,
With McKeeva out of the way, anything is possible.
With Big Mac out of the
With Big Mac out of the way...Good idea, let's act now and act fast!!!
Just pour the darn cement already!
For over 15 stupid years our Cayman politicians have been like crabs in a bucket trying to figure out how to profit for themselves from a cruise ship port while we watch the ships sail past.
Thank you for the years of tendering service, this made a few local Caymanians very wealthy, but it is now time to face the facts: Cruise Ships are now larger: The new flagship Celebrity Reflection has over 3000 passengers (plus 1600 crew) and our tenders are just not equipped to unload that many people.
Also, the average age (with spending wealth) is older on the best cruise ships and these well heeled passengers simply do not want to disembark onto a boat, but rather they wish to walk off. All new ships being built will be the SAME. No cargo doors to unload to tenders….so simply put, only the older and cheaper ships will be able to use our tenders.
I urge every decision maker on this matter and every voter in Cayman to pull the mere USD $400 to $900 (average pricing) out of their pockets and just go on a Caribbean cruise to see for yourself. This is NOT rocket science folks and for every Caymanian who is listening to the hot air of our ridiculous politicians, please wake up. If you cannot travel to see for yourself, then at least Google cruise ship dock “images” on the internet and you will see dozens of simple Caribbean ports that are just long cement piers.
We do NOT need massive retail shopping either! I took a cruise in the Caribbean last year and can tell you the ships now offer ALL high end retail (duty free) onboard. The same exact brands that are sold onshore. Gone are the days of buying watches, jewelry, and perfume on shore. In every port we went to, the tourists only bought t-shirts and took a bus tour, end of story. The passengers DO want a tourist experience to the beaches, our sand bar, or a museum, but the idea of slicing up the retail spending dollar needs to go away with the tenders!
So PLEASE take a look at the DOZEN other cruise ship docks in Bahamas, St. Maarten, Jamaica, even little St. Kitts….and finally realize all that is needed are A FEW CEMENT PIERS AND NOT A RETAIL FRICKING MEGA MALL.
People of Cayman, stand up and demand this madness stops! Yes, pour the cement and make some simple piers for the ships to unload. Stop trying to figure out who will slice up millions, promise jobs, bars, restaurants, and shops, and just get on with about $1.4 million in cement and be done with this boondoggle political football.
I leave you with this. If Mexico and the rest of the Caribbean figured this out why can’t we?
No more politics. Just pour the cement.
Yeah but if the cruise lines
Yeah but if the cruise lines build it there will be no baksheesh in it for the boys!
Don't be so sure of that.
Don't be so sure of that.
I am from the United States
I am from the United States and have traveled to Grand Cayman numerous times.
On a couple of cruises I took, they redirected the ships because of bad weather. A better
Port would take care of this matter and then everyone would enjoy the most beautiful Island in the Western Caribbean!
I am in the tourism business now would love to put my business in Grand Cayman.
Does anyone know how this can be done?...Thank You
moonvalley58@msn.com
The most beautiful island in
The most beautiful island in the Western Caribbean? You need to get out and about a bit more.
20 years ago Grand Cayman might have been attractive but it has become a cross between a trash heap and a construction site in recent years.
baksheesh
baksheesh
Actually, the bad weather you
Actually, the bad weather you refer to (known locally as Northwesters) would also cause the port to be closed even if we had a dock.
How many members of staff
How many members of staff will your company require and what percentage will be Caymanian?
And this Mr. Fri, 02/01/2013
And this Mr. Fri, 02/01/2013 - 12:45. is why no-one with sense should touch Cayman to invest capital without a government sweetheart deal. It is a corruption riddled island from top to bottom. It does not matter if you are willing to build something for the long term benefit of Cayman, unless you are going to pay silly rates for staff some of whom don't turn up if it is raining then forget it.
If it's free and gives
If it's free and gives Caymanians jobs & reduce the crime, take it!!!!
Braca
Silly Braca. All happens is
Silly Braca. All happens is the dock is owned by a big American corporation who will control it , say who can dock there and when, take Goverment revenue until its paid and still have to be redirected on stormy days...read fine print please.
Caymanian unemployment is not
Caymanian unemployment is not due to job scarcity, there are plenty of jobs here.
Really? Tell me of any open
Really? Tell me of any open positions that pay more tha. 35k that expats don't have locked up.
My perfect CV, white collar experience, UK degree, and great reference still have my Caymanian resume ignored by recruiters.
Unless you are connected a middle class Caymanian is a non person with any decent corporate here.
I'm too qualified to be a helper so help me?
Anyone who thinks they have a
Anyone who thinks they have a perfect CV has an attitude problem. Also no-one is too qualified for anything. As someone that hires, I will always prefer someone who was working, even on an interim basis at a job they were "over-qualified" for, than someone who sits at home and sets out CV after CV for jobs they think they are entitled to.
Ah, the old gift horse in
Ah, the old gift horse in mouth approach.
In hope it get done! !! Braca
In hope it get done! !!
Braca
Could we please see an
Could we please see an environmental impact study about dredging a basin off George Town and what that will do with the sand movement along 7 mile beach.
Also what 40 foot deep water will do to George Town in Northwesterners hit.
Don't forget the environment people!!!
Once again, the process is
Once again, the process is all backwards, cloaked in secrecy, and should be stopped. The UK wants to see an open and transparent bidding process, and a financing arrangement that doesn't bleed onto their balance sheet. It doesn't sound like they are anywhere near the open tendering and negotiation stages where they should be showing proposals to the UK. Neither of these two have the finance and negotiation experience to dabble in this arena - the stakes are too high. Throttle back and wait for the election.
Exactly right. Just
Exactly right. Just because former Premier Bush isn't in charge doesn't mean that we should jettison the proper process. We don't need a mega-structure/mini-city. We also shouldn't get hooked into an 'exclusive' port as they have in some places in Central America, where only certain cruise lines are allowed to use it.
Proper and vetted tendering, EIS, and, of course, within the ability of our country's vastly diminished financial abilities.
We need to have a cruise ship
We need to have a cruise ship port that can adequately deal with allowing passengers to dock even when there is bad weather and rough seas. Think of the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars we lose every year because cruise ships have to stay off shore and the passengers cannot come into port. For a country that relies so heavily on tourism (and cruise ship tourism at that) does it not seem ridiculous that we have to so often turn away ships?
Folks hear this ...A PORT IN
Folks hear this ...A PORT IN GEORGE TOWN WILL NOT STOP CRUISE SHIPS SKIPPING US IN BAD WEATHER!! All it will do is make it safer for the passengers in good weather. The ships will not berth side on to wind in choppy conditions here. You need to understand that all is proposed is a good weather dock. At the same time this dock destroys all the inner reefs in George Town such as Eden rock, devils grotto, cheese urged reef and more- if you look out to see on a cruise day any activity ( snorkeling, canoeing, etc) that you now see will be gone. This is only a PARTIAL solution and is only really lowering the cruise company insurance premiums. That's all. We need to understand that.
It may not fully prevent the
It may not fully prevent the ships from bypassing us, but it can certainly increase the numbers of ships that are allowed to dock in more severe weather. As an engineer, I have been involved in the construction of other commercial and tourist-based ship ports and if designed and constructed properly, then this dock can greatly help Cayman's cruise ship docking.
We must be realisitic as to
We must be realisitic as to the bad weather situations and how much the port can help. For example, considering a large number of cruise ship guests enjoy Cayman on the water when they arrive- either in Stingray City, Atlantis Submarine, snorkelling etc. How often are those tours closed down due to the same bad weather anyways?
There is definitely money lost, especially in passenger fees to the CIG, but in the rest of the economy it is not as blatant. On the flip side Turtle Farm may gain from passengers being able to stop during poor weather, as will retail, and taxis perhaps. But I don't see the docks as the end all be all to Caymans success.
If you notice, every project
If you notice, every project is claimed to be the end all to Cayman success
How come all the thumbs down?
How come all the thumbs down?
Remember how Bush was
Remember how Bush was elected?
All agreed 06.28, but this
All agreed 06.28, but this time, let it be done with transaparency, public discussion and for once, lets get the right answer for Cayman, and not for the pockets of the few. Same with the aiport...
"...what Cayman actually got
"...what Cayman actually got in the pay off..."
Answer: Screwed.
Thank you McKeeva.
This is what should have
This is what should have happened in the first place.
If the cruise lines put money up front for the dock they will then have to use it to justify the investment to their shareholders. If someone else builds the dock they can do what they like, including pulling Grand Cayman off their routes altogether.
They will never pull cayman
They will never pull cayman off routes. Just a negotiating ploy. That's all.
If you believe that you also
If you believe that you also believe the moon is made out of green cheese.
When Cuba opens up you'll be lucky to see a cruise ship off George Town once every week. It's all about fuel burn and routing, the Cayman Islands no longer make sense as a regular cruise destination.
Ok ... but what exactly is
Ok ... but what exactly is this cruise line intending to build?!
I would support the construction of the piers ONLY if they are strictly p-i-e-r-s (no shops etc.).
The main objective of this project is (should be?) to enhance and increase the tourism potential of our (arguably already saturated) country.
If retail space, hotels, casinos etc. are added to this project then that objective will be sidelined and effectively, an entirely new dynamic will be created.
Furthermore, we can rest assured that the extra amenities WILL NOT be created primarily for the benefit of Caymanians / the country!
The above truly is the crux of the matter and these points MUST be clarified before a single brick is sunk.
This is not the time for hee-hawing around guys. We have already seen the monopolistic, beastly nature that these cruise lines have exhibited in other jurisdictions, and if we fall victim to it we will surely regret the day we entered into any agreement with them.
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