$2.65M taken from pensions
Posted on Thu, 09/06/2012 - 18:15 in Local News
CNS): Government officials have revealed that 137 Caymanians have withdrawn a total of $2.65 million from their pensions in order to buy or build a home, purchase land or pay off mortgages under an amendment to the pensions law last year. This falls far short of the claim made backbench MLA Ellio Solomon recently that some $17 million had been injected into the economy as a result of the law, which grew from a motion filed by the former radio talk-show host in 2010. Government amended the pension law just short of a year ago to allow locals with private sector pensions to take up to $35,000 from their pension fund and invest the money in property.
Solomon now says he intends to file a similar motion calling for civil servants to withdraw cash from their Public Service Pension Fund, which may prove considerably more difficult.
The data regarding how many people in the private sector have used the facility and for what comes directly from the new Department of Labour and Pensions, which showed that 50% of the $2.65 million withdrawn by locals from private sector pensions was spent by 78 applicants on the purchase of a home, while almost one million dollars was spent on paying off 36 existing mortgages. Seventeen applicants used just under $300,000 to construct a home and a further six applicants spent $98,000 on land.
The release of the information is part of a commitment to improve the department’s systems, databases and other methodologies to ensure the timely and accurate delivery of information and technical support to its stakeholders, the department's director, Mario Ebanks, said in a release.
“Statistics such as these, dealing with withdrawals from pension plans for worthy socio-economic causes in accordance with the law, will be released regularly and at least on a quarterly basis,” Ebanks stated. “Subject to funding, the department will enhance its databases, website, and generally leverage technology in order to achieve high quantitative and qualitative outputs.”
The information comes ahead of an expected debate in the Legislative Assembly in the coming weeks on the sequel motion which Solomon plans to file that will allow civil servants to do the same thing from the public service pension. Speaking on Cayman 27 last week, the George Town MLA admitted that there may be some resistance in the higher echelons of the civil service to the motion but he believed he had wide support for it.
However, allowing public sector workers to raid their pensions may prove much more complex, given the problems government is already facing with its liability for millions and millions of dollars towards future pensions that will need to be paid out to civil servants who have yet to retire but are entitled to do so on a fixed income.
There are concerns, too, over the damage caused to a long term investment by withdrawing a significant sum mid-way through, which has not been fully explained to those that have taken up the chance of what may feel like a cash windfall twenty years away from retirement but may place those pensioners in future poverty.
Last year a number of pension firms warned that such a $35,000 withdrawal could have a devastating impact on the final funds pensioners will be faced with when they retire and the dangers that they will then become a burden to the state. Solomon argues that those trapped in rental property when they retire will have to spend a large portion of their pension on rent but if withdrawing a sum of cash before retirement will help them to buy a home, in the long run a smaller pension may not be so much of a problem.
Under the law, those who have used their pension for a home are required to pay additional contributions of 1% and if they sell the property before they retire they will need to pay back the full amount of what is being considered a loan from the scheme.
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I learn what is Retirement
I learn what is Retirement Pension Plans but i have one doubt this pension plan has two types one is conventional pension plan invest and ULIP or market linked pension plans which is best pls give detail ........
When Mr Anglin is regulating
When Mr Anglin is regulating the pension law, we hope that he is taking into consideration the spouses of his Politicians too. Can you imagine if one of them died and their spouses pension was cut in half how would they survive? Or their pensions will be so big that it wont matter. Any how just play that you are in their shoes for one day and perhaps you would be able to see the real picture. If a spouse is deceased or whenever they decease the cost of living wont be any less, just think about it for a while. If you live out of town and it takes two gallons of gas to get you to the hospital if there were one of you driving in that car it would take the same amount of gas. Then if you are burning alittle AC at night time if there is only one of you in the room it would cost the same as two. If you have loans for medical or home loans or whatever you have to pay the same amount. Pensions at one time was the full amount for the living spouse and it should be reversed. Just cut down on so much travel, unecessary body guards, the hylton hotel paving of private propertys, social service especially in the Brac handing out moneys to these foriegn children that have landed on the Cayman Brac shore, and not to mention the assistance of funds to spouses of convenient marriages. The list goes on and on. Any how Mr Anglin we understand that you are very brilliant so we hope that you will look into this matter. Even if it cant be retracted at this stage but you can consider doing so for the future spouses.It could even be your own...
Mr. Solomon, please leave our
Mr. Solomon, please leave our Public Service Pension Plans alone. Reducing the pool of money we have will make it more difficult for us in the long term.
What you should be focusing on Sir is how you can fund the past pensions liability.
"... a total of $2.65
"... a total of $2.65 million..."
"This falls far short of the claim made backbench MLA Ellio Solomon recently that some $17 million had been injected..."
Sounds like Mr. Solomon is grooming himself for the position of Minister for Finance.
The special Ministry of
The special Ministry of ILLUSION has been created for MLA Solomon!
So what is a PENSION? The
So what is a PENSION? The last time I checked an English dictionary it was a regular payment made by an employer to a former employee after they retire.
So how will it be regular if it has been withdrawn early? Has Mr. Solomon ever heard of the compounding effect of money?
Interrupting the compounding effect of a pension by early withdrawing is much more I dare say than $35000 when we are dealing with the long term.
So Mr. Solomon,where is the actuarial analysis, because I havent seen one yet ?
Ask yourself this....What is
Ask yourself this....What is Cayman Islands Law?
Answer: Anything Mac and the UDP want it to be.
And how do you they implement it you ask?
Simple...... fire, ready, aim.
For people who support this
For people who support this idiocy, lets see if we can simplify the explanation as to why this 'scheme' will create more problems than help Caymanians:
We all understand the current pensions are not sufficient to cover your living costs after retirement. So, you will either need to contribute more to your pension scheme OR continue working past age 65 to pay your bills (mortgage, utilities, food, transport, medical etc).
This means that withdrawing funds from your already inadequate pension scheme, to take on a 20-30 year mortgage liability does not make good financial sense.
In a few years when the property owners reach retirement age, their pension fund will be pretty much obliterated but they will have, say 18 years left on your mortgage - how do you pay your mortgage for the property now? no savings, no pension income, no job
Several of these properties end up being be foreclosed on by the banks when the homeowner cant make payments; so the homeowner and dependents are unable or unwilling to work end up on welfare. Government increases fees to take care of the homeowners.
Foolio may or may not be around to update on how his little social experiment turns out... But the one thing for certain - his parlimentary pension and fat MLA salary are safe.
Are you not familiar with
Are you not familiar with banking procedures here in Cayman? Mortgages are only extended until the oldest person on the loan is 65. So how will my pension be obliterated if I take $15k out now to help buy a house that will go to my children eventually, and the mortgage is paid off by the time I am 65, and I have about $92k in my pension right now with 30 years more to work to contribute to my pension. Dont generalize in your comments. There are plenty of people that this pension swap are helping and I am one of them.
First, the bank will not give
First, the bank will not give you a mortgage past retirement age so the home must be paid off before you retire. Better to live in a home now than public housing later (our taxes then paying the $$$)
Also until the pension schemes allow more than $1,000-$1,500 monthly payout do not fool yourself into thinking their will be a pension salary that will be your lifeblood when you retire.
Better to get people into homes now than to be homeless and a bigger drain on the society later.
The pension for property makes sense for any Caymanian (please extend it to expats and civil service!) who is under the age of 40. For the next twenty years they will be paying into an investment (a home) instead of living high on souped-up fast cars and flash living beyond their means.
We'll fix everything later on
We'll fix everything later on with an expat tax
Hopefully the next government
Hopefully the next government corrects the MLA pension problem that gives them all an hugely enhanced pension. Had their pensions been based on their performance, MLAs would be paying the country, not the country paying them.
17:02 I am one of those
17:02 I am one of those people who support this idiocy, however before you paint us with a brush that is way too broad you might consider that some of us put more In to savings and other methods for our future than we do in to the pension plan we participate in and instead saw an opportunity to stop watching our money be lost by pension plans who do not even invest in our own country and finish paying off a mortgage so that we are now debt free and can save even more. Personally I now have absolutely no debt as a result of this scheme, have a home and have and always will save a minimum of 30% of my monthly salary and my spouse 50% of his salary into secure investments and savings for our future, as we are in our fifties and have been doing this all of our adult lives I think you can consider me an idiot but perhaps some of us are dumb like a fox
Grreat for you that you have
Grreat for you that you have savings and alternate investments to fall back on - but that was not a criteria for the scheme, correct? so the scheme does not care whether you have an alternate savings plan or not and might end up screwing yourself in the end?
just lucky for you you have savings ... did the other 136 applicants? no?....so I dont think the poster was wrong to point out that most or several of tyhese families will get the short end of the stick
The other 136 applicants will
The other 136 applicants will at least have a home when the y turn 65. The length of a mortgage does not go beyind retirement age.
Homes now instead of homeless later!!!
I can't believe all the
I can't believe all the nagativity I am reading! Elio and the UDP did something GREAT not only for the people who chose to participate and buy themselves a home which is the greatest accomplishment or largest investment a person will normally make in their lifetime, but they can pass it on to their children and future generations as well all while boosting the economy! I fail to see anything wrong with this picture! Well done Elio Solomon and the UDP!
I do have a concern about the CS accessing their pensions, although we as a modern society should not and cannot discriminate, I would love to see the CS employees benefit from this law proposed by Elio, the problem here is that the C.I. Government, not pointing fingers at any particular party, has failed to pay it's pensions and if I'm not mistaken is approximately $400 million dollars in arrears? So how will this lack of funding, and I say failure of our Government's past and present to uphold the Pensions Law, oh wait the SuperIntendant of Pensions told me herself during my four and a half year pensions trial, "The Pensions Office has no authority over the Government's pensions" so the law doesn't apply to the Government only to us small businessman and woman. Sorry didn't mean to make this an attack on the discrimaltory pensions law, but if the fund is underfunded, how will the islands largest employer fund the many likely applications it will recieve from it's employees while protecting it's future pensioners?
Has there been an allowance in the new budget for catching up on the Government's underfunded pensions? I last heard in the court room that the Government is paying $10 million per year into the fund. I truly hope so not only because I paid the ultimate price for my mistake in failing to properly fund my employees pensions, which I have long since corrected 100%, I would like to see how the Government could possibly pay 100% of it's pension debt immediately, plus fines as I did, and recover from the blow! I would like to know that our Government is at least paying down it's pensions debt regularly in order to protect the future of it's employees.
Signed
Scott Henderson
Caymanian Government will do
Caymanian Government will do it the same way it does and will do everything else. It will fail. You know it. I know it. And they know it. Well maybe they don't because it seems they don't know much. I bet they really don't realize that not paying in their share now still means they will still have to pay it later. That just means they are not going to fail on purpose. They just don't know any better. Too bad they also can't listen to anyone else but Mac. At least you were smart enough keep yourself out of trouble.
Dear MLA Ellio Solomon A
Dear MLA Ellio Solomon
A George Town resident and Permanent Resident of the Cayman Islands sent you two e-mails, various texts and even a few WhatsApp messages. You did not respond to even one of them, not even to say "confirm receipt of your message."
When you present your motion to amend the Pension Swap to include civil servnats, please think about amending it as well to include Permanent Residents who have Caymanian children, as the purchase of a house by the Permanent Resident parent would greatly benefit the Caymanian children in the long run. The children's father is Caymanian and the parents are divorced. The Caymanian father owes about $12,000 in back child maintenance (he cannot keep a job and is in and out of Northward) and the Permanent Resident mother is their sole financial provider. The Rermanent Resident mother has a good job and pays $1500 in rent a month. The Permanent Resident mother was approved by the bank for a mortgage. It is however, difficult on the mother's own to come up with the deposit and closing costs and this is where the pension withdrawal could help greatly in this situation.
Please consider an amendment to the rules to include Permanent Residents with Caymanian children. Thanks for your consideration.
And to any other MLA that perhaps reads this comment, you could also bring a motion to amend the Pension Swap in the manner described above.
Decisions and judgment. A
Decisions and judgment. A woman with a good education and a good job choosing a man who can't stay out of jail as a father for her children? Why do decent and promising young women do that in this day and age? Bad decision and bad judgment. Samething happens when you withdraw anything from your pension. You stand to lose doubly, especially if you lose the asset you invested your pension money in.
Who on Earth are YOU to judge
Who on Earth are YOU to judge ME? And why would you imply that I would lose the asset that the pensions was withdrawn to assist in purchasing? For your information, the amount to be withdrawn would be $12,000 and I have over $70k in my pension. Also for your information, the pension is paid back by mandatory additional monthly contributions. If I have been paying rent here monthly for the last 15 years, how is it that I would be able to pay that same amount in mortgage? Why are you so quick to judge when you know nothing about my situation? And with respect to the father of my children, he was a decent man until he succombed to addiction. At that point I divorced him. Why dont you judge HIM and inquire why he will not get a job and supoprt his children; he owes over $16,000 in maintenance. And, for your information " Mr/Ms Decisions and Judgement" the bad decision and bad judgement was made by my ex-husband when he chose to get into drugs and alcohol in the last few years which is why I, using my SOUND SENSE AND GOOD JUDGEMENT, decided to divorce him so that my children would grow up in a healthy and safe environment. Instead of trolling around here on CNS, zip your damn lip and take a look at your own life before throwing stones at other people's houses.
Ellio, I just got my 35k and
Ellio,
I just got my 35k and I've bought an awesome piece of land.
God willing, I'm going to build early next year and I'll invite you over.
Thanks again. I would rather know that my money is tied up in a piece of paradise rather than a piece of paper than can lose its value overnight.
So you have moved from a
So you have moved from a diversified investment to a single strategy in an exceptionally risky market and one which is exceptionally illiquid. Good luck.
Pull up Rooster archive from
Pull up Rooster archive from last friday 31 August:
Foolio was lound n proud bout $81 MILLION that has been kept in local economy. I think CNS are being conservative in reporting an inflated claim of only $17m haha
another example of expecting a poorly educated person ("Ive done degree level studies" zzzz) to do a job for a trained professional -- it just dont make sense and the outcome is not reliable!
Is it just me or have you all
Is it just me or have you all noticed that all the people FOR this stupid plan seem to not just have a math problem but, they also can't spell !!!
Typical Politician - Live for
Typical Politician - Live for the moment - no planning for the future
It's all good--if you own
It's all good--if you own ther Mercedes dealership...
I think this article misses a
I think this article misses a key point which is that this $2.65m has not been used to purchase property it has been used as leverage in loans which are backed by property.
The law does not allow us to withdraw money from our pensions to purchase a property outright - only to use as a down-payment for a mortgage (or in some cases to pay off an existing mortgage).
Therefore the bank has 1st lein on your property and if at any time in the future the borrower fails to make payment on the loan then the bank can repossess that property. Goodbye pension and Goodbye property.
If the people who are taking funds from their pension genuinely need to, i.e they do not earn enough to enable them to save a deposit for a home then is it not more likely that these are the same people who will get into difficulty with paying a longterm loan? Is it not more likely that these are the same people who will have their homes foreclosed and be left with nothing?
If Ellio wants to help lower income Caymanians have a stable home that they can afford (and I believe that he does) then unfortunately this was not the way to go about it. Unfortuantely, this law has had the unintended consequence of putting our poor at even greater risk of poverty.
Anonymous Fri, 09/07/2012 -
Anonymous Fri, 09/07/2012 - 09:33
Excellent point, thank you.
Come on, our pension schemes
Come on, our pension schemes suck. The managers are fat cats and the funds are under performing. I think it is much better for someone to get a house now, pay off the morgage before they turn 65 and at least own a small home when they retire than to live paycheck to paycheck with a fancy new car, flash phones, and high living now.
As for this being a strain on the Government, what do you think will COST more? Small retirement fund or Social Service houses for hundreds??? Huh? Get these people into homes now or it WILL cost us plenty in the future.
The pension for property actually makes sense!!! It will stimulate the economy and force young Caymanians to put their money in a home instead of high living.
Yes, allow this for Civil Servants too please. I'd rather see responsible mortages now than wait and hope the funds do better in the future. Remember, these people do not stop paying into their pensions either, rather they have to add 1% more!
Nice houses (no-stamp duty?) going up on a GT bypass, sounds like a good investment to me.
Isn't the government plan
Isn't the government plan something like a defined benefit plan and isn't it badly underfunded? So how can civil servants take money out? Are theirfuture benefits going to be reduced?
That pension plan is more
That pension plan is more underwater than the Titanic. One day it will implode and it won't a 3% pay rise the civil servants will have to worry about.
A big thank you Ellio, from
A big thank you Ellio, from the bottom of my heart and many other Caymanians heart.
And to all you 10 for putting Ellio down, you all can go fly a kite, you are insignificant to this opportunity, that we Caymanians got.
Now we can also have our own home,... the greatest investment any Caymanian can ever make.
In Cayman we have 4 types of charaters;
1) The expats who are jealous of Caymanian excellingh in their own country. 2)The black crab mentality...caymanians that never want to see their own excell. 3)The financial, greedy mother f@@@ who wants this pension to continue, and not touched, so they can get richer.4) The ordinary idiots that have no concept of their surroundings, that go around slandering their own people.
Now tell me, which of you ten thumbing Ellio down, for giving his cayman people such a great oppotunity...which one of you care about our retirement or wellfare? I live here 60 years and i don't see it, some of you pass us in the supermarket and turn away your heads,so as to not have to say hello!...., how are you today!....hypocrite, thats what you all are.
Thank you Ellio and may God continue to bless men like you, that stand up for humanity.
Your post begs the
Your post begs the question......... which of the four types of 'character' you listed do you fall in to?
Do you think it's possible you might be painting with a broad brush -- compartmentalising people to fit your own agenda -- or are you just another "ordinary idiot that [has] no concept of [your] surrounding?"
I have no problem with responsible people borrowing from their future earnings to finance a home, particularly when we are talking about the dubious earnings of our pension scheme. We all make choices. I fear for those who see the golden ring and try to grab it without also altering their lifestyles to be able to support a long-term mortgage. Put another way, if a person finds themselves unable to put aside any savings toward the purchase of land and/or a house, how do they hope to be able to continue to make their payments in order to KEEP their house?
This whole "scheme" stinks, and I think you and I can agree upon that. I take issue with your attempt to compartmentalise us all into neat little boxes of badness.
Ex-pats Jealous??? of what??
Ex-pats Jealous??? of what?? Corruption, lies, dodgy deals, even dodgier politicians.
Some people seriously overrate their own appeal!!
Ex pats are only here for as long as it is economical for them to be so. And right now it is borderline as to whether they stay or go.. Not saying we want to go, but the facts are the facts. If expats go, then Caymanians will have to pay their own pensions and for their own civil service. How are you going to do that? It wont matter about who bought what with their pension money! I suggest there are more serious fish to fry currently than this.
And 99% of Caymanians and expats get on fine...there is always one or two rabid dogs to try and spoil it all. Suggest you keep your offensive comments to yourself and start working towards solving the real problems here. If you cant do that then please take the long walk on the short pier and do everyone a favour.
Sorry but you just
Sorry but you just wrore..."In Cayman we have 4 types of character" which I take to mean that there are only 4 and you must be one of them. Which one???
Smart ass 10 ;06 I'm neither
Smart ass 10 ;06
I'm neither of the 4 types of character that I mentioned. You and your 4 type of characters are not part of the positive thinking Caymanians, otherwise you would'nt be behaving in such a destructive manner.
Caymanians need this opportunity to own there own home and you are totally against it, you are in which ever of the 4 character that fits your ideal.
Foolio Jr, its 2pm, are you
Foolio Jr, its 2pm, are you drunk again down at Sunset?
06:40, You must be related to
06:40, You must be related to Foolio and have clearly emulated Mac with this diatirbe you just spouted.
08:59 Yes im related to
08:59
Yes im related to Ellio through humanity reason,... he is my brother and mentor. As for Mac, i will always be his supporter,... man with great vision, love and humanity. These acolades you will never live long enough to obtain. God bless you, and have a nice day!
Great response Foolio Jr.
Great response Foolio Jr. What flavour kool-aid are they handing out today?
All due respect but how can
All due respect but how can he be your mentor when you are obviously many years his senior? What does he do to make him your mentor?
Its not a lie. Its an
Its not a lie. Its an "honorable" claim. Its Caymankind.
Will this effect us when we
Will this effect us when we retire ellio?
Bracer
vote him out!
vote him out!
Thats a done deal, trust me
Thats a done deal, trust me
Did you all feel the jolt
Did you all feel the jolt when the 17 million was injected into the economy?
Oh. It was just 2.65 million now?
Liar. Liar. Pants on Fire...
I never felt the jolt, but i
I never felt the jolt, but i felt so ashamed to have you as one of us.
let me try to put this in perspective. if 17 persons qualify to get a loan from the various banks, to construct their homes, say at $300,000.00 each that means now $5,100,000.00 are circulating in the economy.
Now we have 120 pesons that either bought property, paid off their loans or bought a home.
lets now average these other 3 catagories at spending, say $200,000.00 per person, =$24,000,000.00
That my friend is using a conservative exercise.
We now have $29,100.000.00 floating around in our economy. and more to come...thanks to Ellio. God bless Ellio!
You and Mr. Mario are saying that it is $2.65 millions. Im not surprised, you are the perpetraitors of this scheam form the inception. Have a good day...God bless.
You obviously believe the
You obviously believe the drivel you just posted, that is frightening
81 million = 18 million 17
81 million = 18 million
17 million = 2.65 million
Fooliomacanomics 101.
Slow news day? This will only
Slow news day? This will only be news 20 years from now when those poor misled families in their rundown homes get their power and water cut off because they have failed to save for their retirement. My only hope is that Ellio is right there with them.
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