$8M missing in vehicle fees
Posted on Thu, 08/30/2012 - 17:50 in Crime
(CNS): The police commissioner said he believed there was as much as $8 million missing from the public purse in connection with uncollected fees from unlicensed vehicles on the road. David Baines told Finance Committee members last week that now the RCIPS had recruited a significant number of staff to take it beyond just a response capability, he had officers that he could now deploy in proactive work with the DVL staff to begin to address that problem. These high visibility operations had, he said, already boosted numbers at vehicle licensing. He also explained that while the stand-alone traffic department has been merged into normal response, specially trained officers were still working in the RCIPS.
Answering the usual questions from MLAs about the almost $33 million allocation in this year’s budget to the police service, the commissioner spoke about how officers were deployed. He said that prevention was an important part local policing and there was a strategy in place in which the police patrolled and targeted vulnerable and at-risk areas as well as monitoring known offenders. He said that improvements in security in the face of increasing armed robberies would often see offenders changing their actions in response to increased preventative methods employed by business owners as well as police surveillance.
Despite the increase in the police budget, which was mostly down to the boost in numbers throughout the service, the commissioner pointed to cost cutting measures in the service through better management of police marine vessels on patrol and cutting fuel use. He said that the marine fleet had never been as well maintained and ready for use as at present, with just one boat undergoing some minor maintenance.
Although the police helicopter had been under threat of being sold off under a previous budget proposal, there were no specific questions about it being sold from Finance Committee members. Baines told MLAs that the helicopter was capable of flying as far as the US and had been staffed with first responders so it could be used in medical emergencies as well as police matters
The commissioner explained some of the recent changes to the RCIPS and said the Drug Task Force was now part of the Serious Crime and Drugs Task Force, which reflected the changing threat of serious criminality the islands faced recently.
The number of neighbourhood officers was increasing and was up to eleven dedicated officers, Baines said, noting that it was always a battle for the RCIPS to facilitate the advancement, development and specialist training of officers while at the same time filling the neighbourhood beat officer posts.
Email this pageLatest Classifieds
- George Town Landfill to close early
- Grand Court Juror Report Date Changed
- Government Schools Begin Registration
- Church Street Closed to All Vehicular Traffic
- On Sales : Samsung Galaxy SIV / Apple iPhone 5 64GB
- Sales On: Apple iPhone 5 32GB, Samsung I9300 Galaxy S III / Galaxy S4 Buy 2 get 1 free
- Affordable South Side Home for Sale
- house for rent
- car for sale
- Samsung Galaxy S4 19500 16GB Unlocked
Comment Policy
The comments posted do not necessarily reflect the views of CNS or any individual staff member. All comments are posted subject to approval by CNS. Read more
Recent Comments
- After voting they will
7 min 24 sec ago - Yes, but then the PPM scare
23 min 45 sec ago - Don't allow yourselves to be
28 min 44 sec ago - Like to generalize much?
29 min 50 sec ago - It is the evening of the
1 hour 13 min ago - Kent I agree with your
1 hour 23 min ago - Good luck Cayman - we'll be
1 hour 25 min ago - And now for the most
1 hour 48 min ago - So if this true then why is
1 hour 49 min ago - What is done in the dark
1 hour 50 min ago
Search
Join Our Mailing List
Follow CNS via ...
Facebook Twitter RSS
Comments
It is not the registration
It is not the registration fee...what about the car insurance if one of these idiots crashes into you?
Check the Dump sure you will
Check the Dump sure you will find alot of the cars there with plates if "Mr Scrap" did get them.
You know what we are making a
You know what we are making a whole lot of hoopla about nothing.
Answer me this question. Do you think that number was much different last year this time? Answer is no. Why bring it up now? Why not a year ago? Two years ago? Reason. Funding.
We know that every department is having to cut expenses and every department is TRYING to justify their big budgets. RCIP is no different.
When they are ready what they do is to pander to people's whims...
About 2 to 3 weeks ago it was the amount of road accidents so we need more police doing stops. Last week it was people speeding thru school zones so we need police there at the school (this has been true for years now not just this year) this week it's 8 million dollars in uncollected unlicensed vehicles. All they are trying to do people is to play to us BLOGGERS so they can GET THEIR BUDGET.
Here are teh facts. Our Police need to get tech happy so they can ahem "get more done with less" as they say it in the private sector. They do not need more manpower what they need is more BRAINPOWER in the RCIP. They do not need a BIGGER BUDGET they need is a SMARTER BUDGET.
So let's stop playing their game because we are so gulable. Let's demand that they create better systems not use the old systems. The fact is people have learnt how to beat their old system. I am 1000% sure they have a lot of TRASH on their computers. Outstanding that are not outstanding and outstanding that are simply uncoillectable BUT it looks good on their books.
RCIP. Stop the BS. Get SMARTER....Fosters has brains in aisle 5.
Agree..this is BS..you maybe
Agree..this is BS..you maybe have $1 million in uncollected fees..the rest are in the dump with the plates still on ...
What the RCIPS needs to do is hook up a computer system into patrol cars with scanners that automatically scan license plates that are tied into the DVL. That way, when driving behind someone they can just get the details and see if the license coupon is expired! Simple!
But actually I do enjoy the current system quite a bit as the lazy police don't bother to pull me over for tickets etc. The only problem is that they don't pull over the crazy drivers much either. Truth is I don't like to drive after 9 on a Friday, Saturday or Sunay or Holiday as I don't feel safe..Its a trade off but I think it is possible to make the place safer for drivers and enjoyable for responsible motorist without being a facisit sytle police service pulling over granny's and making them blow on the spot.
I spent some years in Ft. Lauderdale Florida attending university and I can see how bad having Nazi style policing can be in terms of making life difficult or just generally affecting the community preception. Often when I lived in the US I felt like a criminal already in prison and I often thought to myself do these people really think they are free..far from it! they are just in a bigger cell as they were not really free to do much without a worry about the law...Like O gosh if I pee in this bush I might get arrested and prosecuted for lewd conduct or if the police doesn't like me he will arrest me and they will find something on the books to send me to jail..so we need to be careful and strike a balance
Maybe if we didn't have to
Maybe if we didn't have to take half a day off work and lose our holiday entitlement to actually get the vehicle licensed in the first place people would have more incentive to actually want to get the fees paid. It is one of the most painful tasks I have to do, and usually involves 50 other poor sods in the same boat crammed into a small waiting room like sardines in a tin, with one cashier working.
Its easy, lets get an online system where you can do everything with the click of a button, insurance and inspection fees. Surely we have the ability to set up a online system where people can pay their renewal/license fees its like living in the 80's!
The first insurance company on Island to set up a system where you can get a quote online, pay for insurance online and print your cover note off will make a steal !
Good comment. When I was
Good comment.
When I was working in the Cayman Islands this whole licensing process reminded me of the UK back in the late 1960s.
And your annual inspection? I did vehicle safety inspections in the UK during the late 60s and they were tougher than that. Bottom line is that there are private vehicles on the roads in Grand Cayman that would have been declared unroadworthy in the UK over 40 years ago. You also have major problems with the trucks being used on the island, most of them are just completely unroadworthy wrecks that should have scrapped years ago.
In the UK I now license and insure my car online. Obviously it still has to go in for the annual inspection (MoT) but the paperwork for that is also processed online by the test centre and right now all the records for my motor vehicle are instantly accessible to any police traffic patrol in the UK.
One of the features of the fancy new CCTV system is supposed to be ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition), which in my opinion is one of the most significant recent developments in effective roads policing. The problem is that without a proper vehicle database it's a complete waste of time and money - cart before the horse mentality in action here.
Quite honestly I think Commissioner Baines comments are complete BS. If he was really serious about this he would be pushing for a fully computerised system of vehicle records to tie in with ANPR. With that in place his officers could sit by the roadside merrily catching offenders without disrupting the traffic flow with roadblocks.
He also needs to address the 'friends and family' attitude that allows his officers to turn a blind eye to traffic offences committed by people they know or people who might be important enought to cause them problems.
Last month UK police forces clocked up their one-millionth uninsured vehicle seized and crushed so If he is really serious about this here's a suggestion - give everyone on the island three months to get ther vehicles road legal. After that any vehicle found in use without insurance, a current sticker or a current inspection is impounded, crushed and sold off for scrap.
A friend told me that you
A friend told me that you will soon be able to re-license your vehicle and/or renew driving license online. It is presently being tested.
Mr. Baines, How about
Mr. Baines, How about spending more time and effort doing important things like solving all the those unsolved deaths etc. that exist here in The Cayman Islands!
By the way: Here's a little math on the assumed $8,000,000.00 loss of revenue!
If we used an average of say $150.00 dollars [annual fee] per vehicle, "which I think is reasonable" we would have something like "53,333 vehicles" that have outstanding fee violations. If that's the case some one or some department are not doing their job.
Cayman's testing and
Cayman's testing and licencing procedures are totally unfit for purpose, How can you be sure that any vehicle is properly road worthy with the 3 minute check that they offer, you see vehicles that should have been condemned years ago, being passed every day? Then you go through the indignity of having to sit and be lectured by an official who believes its his Civil Service duty is to question your faith whilst on government time. Then, you have to sit with a multitude of other frustrated enquirers, driving test candidates and fee payers for anything up to two hours, in a cramped and uncomfortable room.
The only reason that I can see for this nonsensical system is that it is designed to keep people employed in mind numbingly menial jobs on the government payroll.
Why isn't the test credible and why can't you pay your test fee at the testing area, instead of wasting so much time at the mercy of individuals who care little for customer service or job efficiency? Time to get into the 21st century.
You are exaggerating. I have
You are exaggerating. I have found the service in the new facility very good. Perhaps you were not around a few years ago when you had to STAND in a line for a minimum of one hour...sometimes the line went out the door. I am thankful for the new system where you can take a number and sit to wait your turn while reading your newspaper. If you don't want your pay to be cut while you are not on the job, just hire someone to do it for you...it's not expensive and it will save YOU a lot of stress.
10.18 If you pick a day and
10.18 If you pick a day and time during the month when volume is low, you'll get throigh very quickly. The staff processing my licence renewal last month were as efficient and thorough as they could be. Smile at the world and it smiles back, usually.
this has to be the easiest
this has to be the easiest fix for the entire law enforcement community in cayman.
3 databases with increasing levels of login security
1.vehicle registration and insurance- info regarding vehicles that have been registered and expiration dates of registration and insurance info.
2. drivers licensing and identification- link immigration,police, records to form a data base that works/ not OTRIS
3. aircraft, road vehicles, and marine vessel registry- aircraft already have N numbers that can be checked. road vehicles have license plates that should make it easy to tell what car the plate was issued to. Marine vessels just need to be checked for safety equipment and marine worthiness then have a registration number issued to them. if there is a problem doesn't the RCIP have a marine unit, patrolling the borders is only 1 part of the job.
I agree that a lot of fees
I agree that a lot of fees are probably for old Ivan vehicles that people didn't turn in the plates. I know I have a old car in my yard but I lost one of the plates so I couldn't turn it in.
It is simply astounding that
It is simply astounding that the neither the RCIPS nor the licensing department have figured out as yet what to do with this problem, in that, under our Traffic Law, the annual vehicle licensing fee is simply a yearly tax which is due on the anniversity of the original registration of the vehicle, until it is either certified as being destroyed by the Director of DOEH or exported by the Collector of Customs. Therefore, all owners of vehicles must pay the yearly tax and it should be a fairly simple, albeit tedious, exercise for the Licensing Department to send a demand notice to anyone who fails to pay the tax. In fact, as long as you own a vehicle, you have to pay the fee each year and the age old concept of 'turning in the license plates' is not even recognized by the current traffic law. Consequently, there is no reason why the police need to wait until someone drives an unlicensed vehicle on a public road to pounce on them and issue a ticket for driving an unregistered vehicle, as owning an unlicensed vehicle is technically a breach of the Law, and, in my view, could be prosecuted under the general penalty section of the Traffic Law. However, If we want an absolutely clear solution to this, all that is needed is to promulgate a simple amending provision that provides penal sanction for not paying the annual fee, within, say, one month of it becoming due, and then the police (or a licensing dept officer) could then deliver a summons or 'ticket' right to an offending owner's door. Problem solved. And all without the need for any stupid annoying roadblocks.
Certainly many of these
Certainly many of these unregistered vehicles are no longer on the road, thus the fees are not collectible. Carrying the numbers on the books is a waste of time, and a distortion of the real revenues that can be recouped.
Wipe all pre 2008 or 2009 numbers from the balance sheet, they are uncollectable. Crack down on those left. Don't waste time and inconvenience those of us us that pay our fees with roadblocks. Get off your butts and check parking lots and roadsides.
Everyday in GT I see numerous vehicles with violations. Okay, mostly over tint and obscured plates, but still...
Why not offer a percentage of the fine to anyone who finds a violation? Puts people to work, and reduces the burden for our police force. Win,win.
Listen folks, simple
Listen folks, simple solution. 2 Police on a scooter each
with log books patrolling parking lots and construction sites.
write up offenders and give them 5 working days to pay.
Problem solved with minimum expence and revenue collected or
vehicle taken off the road with plates taken in and they have to pay up
to the time they drove the vehicle.
Geeeeeee that's too easy, we need 4 vehicles and 6 cops to hold up traffic
to be effective!!!!!!!!!!
Do the traffic department have records of who are unlicensed?
Simple print out will make discovery of offenders very easy.
I don't think the road
I don't think the road traffic law extends to private property "parking lots and construction sites".
If your argument is based on a false premise, then perhaps it is not so simple after all?
Please correct me if I am wrong!
Truthseeker
@@@@@@@@@@@@ You have to
@@@@@@@@@@@@
You have to drive on public roads to get to those private places.
so write them up,
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Traffic records will also show the owner residence.
&&&&&&&&&& CCTV will show their daily activity
Excuses to support any kind of breaking the law's is what's
got us to whare we are now.
Report those you know that are breaking any law.
The million dollar CCTV
The million dollar CCTV system should be used to flash unlicencesd plates as they pass the cameras. A polieman futher up the road should then be able to stop the car and give out a FINE
Also could send out fines by post/email to vehicle owners who dirve unlicences vehicles
We have the technology so use it (done in London to good effect)
No one respects the Police in
No one respects the Police in Cayman because they don't enforce the laws. Every day I witness speeding in general, speeding through school zones, passing into oncoming traffic, motorcycles riding between lanes (yes that's illegal too), and the occasional idiots with their kids riding in trailer boats being pulled down the road. Law and order is dependent on enforcement of the law. My guess is that the problem starts at the top.
Actually its starts mostly in
Actually its starts mostly in the middle in Cayman. Thats where most of the Caymanians are "given" jobs.
Could not agree with you
Could not agree with you more, I've seen polie on many occation, ignore bald tires, no seat belts, no break lights, the list goes on and on, Blaine, you're a joke, waste of time.
Thanks to social media and
Thanks to social media and smartphone technology I know where all the roadblocks are at all times. Beat that one Baines!
Some day when they come for
Some day when they come for you, you can tell him that in person.
Baines, arent you the same
Baines, arent you the same man who claimed that we Cayman doesnt need a traffic department with dedicated traffic cops?
You came in and disbanded the solution, allowed this problem to grow to $8 million when we can least afford it and now plan to come back to govt for more money to fix a problem that didnt have to develop in the first place! SMH!!
Just a suggestion...i just
Just a suggestion...i just came back from holidays from overseas and was amazed at the control systems that are in place on the roadways. On toll bridges no longer do they have booths to collect money but have a overhead system that reads the plates and send the bills automatically through the mail. If left unpaid a vehicle cannot get re-registered. As well they have cameras for speeding that fine the vehicle for infractions and again unpaid the owner cannot get their licence renewed. Why not use this technology to send fines for unlicensed vehicles to the owner and fine licensees for speeding, this seems to be a very cost efffective means to deal with these deadbeats. We have very few major arteries that go into the districts and they would be unable to avoid these cameras and hopefully catch these delinquent individuals.
What is the point in all
What is the point in all these cameras? They cost millions and there is nobody watching them.....I know this because South Sound Rd is a racetrack late Saturday night and there is not a police officer in sight, nobody ever gets prosecuted for speeding or dangerous driving and many are moving at over 70 mph despite the fact that there are cameras everywhere!
David Baines has opened a can of worms and it is evident from most of the posters on this website that the population are very disgruntled with the shambolic policing of the RCIPS traffic cops.
Mobile speed cameras would generate a massive income and not require any more officers to man them....and whilst you are about it, put some tax, number plates and working lights on the Marine Police trailers, remove the illegal tints from several police vehicles and stop your officers from using their vehicles for personal use, shopping trips and collecting their kids from school (fire service included)
Grand Cayman Fire service u
Grand Cayman Fire service u mean?
my truck hasn't been licensed
my truck hasn't been licensed for a year now and i have no intentions on doing it anytime soon :)
Amazing that people take this
Amazing that people take this baiting comment by an anonymous poster and use it to launch an attack on Caymanians generally. If this is the contempt with which "REAL Caymanians" are held by expats is there any wonder that Caymanians do not trust expats to make decisions in their best interests?
And this is how REAL
And this is how REAL caymanians show respect for their country and their laws. (We all get it)
Spoken like a REAL Caymanian.
Spoken like a REAL Caymanian. Right?
That's all very
That's all very swashbuckling, but if you really had any guts you'd have provided us with your number plate, assuming you've got one!
Same here, but a van and only
Same here, but a van and only since March.
Lets get this straight. Over
Lets get this straight. Over $8 Million dollars is owed in outstanding licensing, etc and we are just finding this out now...that is why this country is in the mess it is in now. How much longer is this going to go on?????
With all the huge and very
With all the huge and very public waste going on right now in Grand Cayman you pick this as the reason? Really?
Idea - instead of disbanding
Idea - instead of disbanding the RCIPS' Traffic Dept adnd the Community Beat Officers (whose dumb idea was that?) as they did, why not convert ALL officers to traffic / beat duties.. ?
I'm sure the crime rate woudl drop (but only if they walk, or turn off the car's AC and roll down the windows).
I seem to recall reading
I seem to recall reading something here on CNS in the last couple of days to that effect, i.e. what you have suggested is what has been done.
1) Set up a roadblock coming
1) Set up a roadblock coming out of West Bay.
2) Stop all Japanese cars over 6 years old. All green Civics will be stopped.
3) Checking for licensing and insurance.
4) Seize the 90% of cars that fail the check.
5) Point to the bus stop and tell them it runs regularly.
Did I hear you correctly? Bus
Did I hear you correctly? Bus runs regularly! That would be great if we had real busses with set schedules that users would know when the busses would be at a certain stop. What we need is a scheduled bus service with comfortable seats that people will not feel like sardines in a can. And if we had such a service a lot more people would opt for the bus even if they had to pay a little more.
Definitely agree with you
Definitely agree with you about the green Civics. Nine times out of ten the cars I see driving recklessly are older Japanese models. Very rarely American/European ones. The antics of some of these road users astounds me - they speed, weave in and out of lanes, tailgate, overtake dangerously etc etc. all with an air of utter disregard for the safety of others. And they appear to show no sense of a fear of being stopped, in fact quite the contrary. (Where are the police??!!!!). If I was a policeman I could write up at least ten of these repeat offenders every morning, and I'm pretty sure many of our readers could do likewise. Sorry to state the obvious, but we need some serious law enforcement on our roads to curb these dangerous driving practices.
The problem with unlicensed
The problem with unlicensed vehicles is due to the fact that police roadblocks constantly target people living in the eastern districts (Hurleys roadblock) and west bay (Tiki beach roadblock). The fact is that the majority of unlicensed vehicles are registered in GEORGE TOWN! Thus, no roadblocks are conducted on the major interconnecting roads in GT(Walkers road, eastern ave, shedden road, smith rd, crewe rd, etc) and poeple livng there know this so they dont bother to license their vehicle. Also, the 8 million dollars outstanding represents several years of vehicles not being licensed and not that there are a majority of vehicles being unlicensed! THE RCIPS can easily determine where the majority of offenders live by reviewing the DVDL database and target those areas instead of penalising persons who live in the east and west.
I don't enjoy when the first
I don't enjoy when the first question the vehicle inspector asks me is "have you prayed today sir?" At first I thought it was a veiled reference to the state of my vehicle but, after I showed him my indicators, he started telling me that the Lord had a plan for me. I told him i was an atheist and next thing I'm on my way to Andy's Autos for 2 new shock absorbers and a tire rod.
Sounds like His plan was for
Sounds like His plan was for you to drive a safe vehicle and continue to be an atheist for the rest of your life if you want to. It's your choice.
I think you mean his plan, as
I think you mean his plan, as opposed to His. That is, it was the vehicle inspector's plan, and a good one, at that.
It is disgrace how others are
It is disgrace how others are permitted to impose their religiosity in these modern times. Imposing Chirstianity is religious discrmination and harrasment against those who do not believe either that religion or any religion. "When in Rome" is not an argument, I do not have to have my basic rights infringed because such barbarism is endemic.
"barbarism"?
"barbarism"?
I have the strong impression
I have the strong impression that you are not a Caymanian? Actually the Roman's were fanatically religious, hence their persecution of the Christians for refusing to worship their many gods. And I don't think any Caymanian is expecting that you all of a sudden "get religion", just that you have an understanding and appreciation of where you are, and have some respect. Yes, my friend, this will involve you putting your precious "basic rights" (whatever they might be) on hold, poor you. But you will survive, God willing.
You should go to church, its
You should go to church, its like a big club and we have lots of fun ostracizing others and making them feel out of place, and you get lots of extras like undeserved promotions and free trips if you belong to a choir, land at a discount, sometimes my bills get myseriously lost since some of my church members work for the utilities company, and you can eat like a pig and not care about your health because we are all going to heaven...yeah..whats not to like when you get to live under the auspice that you are a seeker of truth, yet you can take advantage of peoples view of the universe.
Why don't you forgive me
Why don't you forgive me instead and turn the other cheek? I am not going to have bronze age fairy stories rammed down my throat.
Post new comment